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SLU S1 E1 ELLA AND LEILA – UK, Ireland, Spain transcript
ella: [00:00:00] So we have a career guidance counselor. It was just one person to be fair to her, and she had a hundred students to get through in a three day period. So she would call us in for 10 minutes and say, what’s your favorite subject in school? And I said, business. And she was like, perfect. That’s what you’re doing.
Okay, next.
leong: Hi and welcome to Student Life Unplugged. A space where young people from all over the world. Talk openly about their diverse lives from their families and peers to their studies and dreams. In this week’s podcast, I speak to Ella and Leila, both born in London, but now living abroad in Ireland and in Spain.
Ella’s interest is in Business. Leila loves Psychology, and that’s what they hope to pursue at university. At the time of the recording. Ella had just completed her Irish Leaving Certificate exams and was waiting for her results. Leila was going into her [00:01:00] final year at school and studying English A Levels.
In our conversation, we spoke about the pressures they put themselves under to achieve and how supportive their families have been in their studies. I began by asking them about their move abroad.
Leila: I still count London kind of as home because that’s where I feel like connected most to people, like more friends and more family and everything, and it’s just more familiar and more comfortable for me.
leong: What, what’s it like in Spain then?
Leila: I don’t feel as like included. ’cause there’s not as much diversity as I think there is in England, especially London
leong: and Ella, you, you feel the same way.
ella: I would be a bit different now, like all my friends are here, so like, I feel at home in that sense. But all of my, basically all of my family are still over in London, so I, I do feel a sense of like, whenever we go over to visit, I’m like, oh, [00:02:00] I’m back home. Or I say to my friends, oh, I’m going back home for the weekend. Mm-hmm. Or I’m going back home for a week. So like, I suppose in a way I still consider London as home, but I also feel a sense of home here too now. ’cause I’m settled and I have my friends and I have some family over here and stuff, so it’s nice.
Mm-hmm.
leong: It’s really interesting because I come from Malaysia and live in Australia now, and what my family says is that when I’m in Australia, I speak and act differently. I’m actually talking with a Australian accent now, but when I go back to Malaysia, I automatically speak in Malaysian English. And so it’s uh, it’s that sense when you’re around, you know what you call home.
Leila: Yeah.
leong: So Leila, um, you’re looking to go off to study next year? Yeah. And where are you looking?
Leila: I’m looking in London specifically over the summer I was in England for six weeks, like trying to gain more independence. ’cause I’ve lived with my mom my whole life. Um, [00:03:00] and looking at universities and I. Uh, that kind of thing.
I went to Bournemouth in Bristol, but I just feel this weird connection to London. Mm-hmm. Like, I don’t know, I feel more energized and more familiar. I don’t know. So I’m looking more North London, like City of London or Westminster.
leong: Mm-hmm. Uh, you mentioned your mom. How important is it for, uh, support from mom at home and you know when you’re away?
Yeah. Well actually, Ella, you’re, is it good or bad to actually have your mom where you are when you’re doing study?
ella: I love having my parents.
leong: Yeah. Why is that?
ella: I dunno, I suppose I just, I rely on them so much. Like, I mean, probably more than I should sometimes, but like, I dunno. I, I’ve always felt like.
Especially with my mom, I’m very close with her. She’s always kind of, I went through some struggles and stuff in school, in secondary school, so she helped me through that. So I [00:04:00] suppose I kind of have, feel like I owe her.
leong: Mm. And Leila, you feel the same way?
Leila: Yeah. Yeah, I kind of do. Yeah. It’s gonna be very strange without her because she is always there for me during my study times.
Like if I, you know, need a snack, she’s there. You know, if I want a cup of tea, she’s there, but also has emotional support as well.
leong: But these days, you know, with phones and social media and messaging and all of that, um, do, do you be able to keep quite tight contact? Uh, do you do that with, uh, with your mom and your dad?
Uh, your family Use technology to, to keep connected?
ella: I mean, I’m always texting my mom, like throughout work, I’m like, mom, guess what? Guess who I saw? Mom. Guess what? Or like. Like, I don’t know. I feel like I just, I update my mom on every inch of my life. Mm-hmm. Probably more than she cares to hear, but I, uh,
Leila: I feel exactly the same.
Like I tell her everything with, through, you know, WhatsApp, I’m always calling her any minor [00:05:00] situation. Uh, my dad lives in England. So I can call him a lot of the time and everything. Technology definitely helps.
leong: Yeah. Yeah. So you, you both mentioned a bit about, um, your, your day to day life. So do you feel any nervousness or or sense of stress moving away from, you know, home from the comforts of home.
ella: Uh, I’m, I’m not moving away for another few years now. I’m staying here for college, so I haven’t been thinking too much about, I’ve been trying not to think about that because it does make me sad to be fair that like one day I won’t be able to pop downstairs and say hi, like.
Leila: Complete opposite. Oh, right. Moving away is the only thing on my mind because I’m literally gonna be moving next July. So I am constantly looking at like student accommodation, but I’m kind of excited to live alone though. Um, to be honest. [00:06:00]
leong: Why is that?
Leila: I like independence there. I don’t know. It’s weird ’cause I rely on my mom, but then I also really like independency.
It’s a contradiction, but, um, I’m very nervous though, no matter how excited I am. I’m still very nervous. Hmm.
leong: But you look forward to it, it sounds like.
Leila: Yeah. I’m excited to get back to London.
leong: Do you think actually having that connection, having family around you helps in your study or, um, is actually more challenging?
ella: For me, it is. Both so, right. The emotional support is great. Like I’m somebody who gets quite overwhelmed quite easily. Um, so I found myself being quite stressed a lot the last year. So I love having like my family around me, they’re a good distraction. But then. They’re also a good distraction. So when I’m trying, when I need some peace and quiet, having four siblings is not always the quietest house.
leong: [00:07:00] Yeah.
ella: So I didn’t always find it the easiest place to study, but like at the same time, the emotional support was definitely a benefit to have everyone around me.
Leila: Hmm. I think it’s gonna be a lot harder because no matter how much, it’s like annoying to have someone pestering you about studying, it really does help.
It’s like they, have you studied yet today? And it’s like, no, but, and then she’ll make me study, but if I’m alone, I won’t have that. You know?
leong: Yeah. How does your parents feel about you moving away?
Leila: My mom’s excited for me, but she’s still, mm-hmm. Quite nervous. Um, yeah, I think my dad’s excited because I’ll probably see him more.
leong: Yeah.
Leila: But I think they’re two different kind of feelings that they both have.
leong: Now the, the topics that you choose. So what, what led you to choosing the, the topics?
ella: So my fifth year of school, I took up business as a subject. ’cause I hated music, so I was like, oh, I have to pick something else ’cause I’m not sticking out [00:08:00] music.
So I took up business thinking that it was just an easy pass. Yeah. And then I actually ended up loving it and it’s what I did best in, in my exams and I just realized that. Like certain aspects of business I just would love to go into in the future. Yeah. So I thought if doing a general business degree in college would lead me to like a good few avenues that way, like then I could kind of pick what I wanted to do when I get older.
leong: Right. Okay. You mentioned that, uh, you did well, uh, that was the best thing you did in exact, is that a big part of why you enjoy it actually, your grades and your achievement?
ella: I think so. I think like just along the way, like even little class tests compared to like the slightly bigger ones. And then obviously the real thing Yeah.
Was just like, it was more motivating. I like wanted to better myself each time. It became like a competition. I was like, I’d get like 70 and I was like. Okay, I’m actually not bad at this. Let me try and do better. And then I got up to the high, high grades and I was like. [00:09:00] I’m good at this. So it kept me going then.
leong: Well, what about you, Leila? Why, why did you choose Psychology?
Leila: It’s the same as Ella, literally. Um, for A Levels I chose Psychology, always light psychology though, kind of behavior and stuff like that. I. It’s been my favorite subject and it’s the same like motivation as I’ve started to like do the more exams or, you know, show homework or stuff like that.
My teacher would, uh, compliment my work and it would just be like, yeah, I really like this. I really wanna do well in this. Um, and it just seems like. Kind of the right thing for me. I guess the careers that can lead to it, I’m really interested in. Mm-hmm. Like counseling or educational psychology, stuff like that just seems like the right fit, you know?
leong: Yeah. Okay. Do, do you, both of you feel the pressures of doing exams, the pressure of education?
Leila: Yeah.
leong: It’s a lot. It’s too much, or actually it’s [00:10:00] too easy.
Leila: It’s too much.
ella: I, I think it’s too much. Personally, yeah, I’m not actually very familiar with the A level system, uh, over in England or wherever else they do it.
But, um, I know for the Leaving Cert it’s purely, it’s one exam. You sit and that is the be all or end all. Like if you mess up that exam. Apparently none of the work you’ve done for the last three years makes any difference. Mm-hmm. So I feel like there should be a lot more continuous assessment or like mm-hmm. Like maybe a combination of grades you’ve got in the past, because I know that I’m not so who deals very well under pressure.
Yeah. So like exams really aren’t my thing, but yeah. You could sit here and ask me millions of questions and I could talk for days about them. Yeah. But when it comes to writing them in the exam, uh, ’cause I know that that’s the be all or end all. Well, I feel like it is at the time. I’m sure. I’m sure there’s other avenues, but [00:11:00] yeah, when you’re so stressed in that moment, like I feel like it’s so hard to get what you are thinking down on paper in such short time, like in a two and a half hour, three hour exam that is.
You’re supposed to write three years of knowledge in that short space of time, I feel like. Mm-hmm. I’d definitely appreciate if there was more of a continuous assessment.
Leila: I, I a hundred percent agree with Ella completely. A levels. Um, I did a yes levels, so, um, my A levels are split into two years, so I just completed my first year and I do a set of exams.
Then, uh, next year I’ll do another set of exams, but all my friends in England only do their exams next year, so I’m graded on one year of work. So last year and then the year to come, but they’re graded over two years. And it’s just that exam, maybe like a group of three exams, [00:12:00] maybe like an hour and a half each.
But there’s so much pressure to get this all right, and you know, you might be amazing in class. You might have amazing homework, but the pressure of the actual exam and having to do it in a certain amount of time is so overwhelming. It’s so stressful.
leong: Right? Okay. Part of the stress is what happens if you fail?
Is it that you have certain expectations? You know, what is the, the, the pressure behind it?
ella: For me, it was that there was, so I had two colleges in mind. The way they do it here is based on points. So how many points you get determines like what college you get to go to. So I had one down and it was 455 points.
And then my one that I’m doing now was way, way less. So I kind of knew that I’d get into this one regardless, but my goal was the tough [00:13:00] one. So I think it was just like that was constantly in my mind and like. But I feel like if I didn’t have that in my mind, I probably could have achieved those points.
But like, ’cause I had it so ingrained that this had to be it, there was no other avenues. There’s nowhere to go. If I fail this exam, nobody’s gonna take me, nobody wants to gimme a job. But like, I know that’s not true. I didn’t get much guidance you see in school. Mm-hmm. About different options or what to do if, like you said, if you failed an exam.
And it didn’t go the way you wanted. What other options are there? Like I didn’t feel like I got any of that anyways. So maybe more education about different options would benefit people.
leong: Yeah. So are there counseling services or or services that helps you now?
ella: Mm, we had one in school, so we have a career guidance counselor, however, ’cause she has so many, like it was just one person to be fair to her and she had.[00:14:00]
A hundred students to get through in a like three day period. So she would call us in for 10 minutes and say, what’s your favorite subject in school? And I said, business. And she was like, perfect, that’s what you’re doing. Okay, next. So I feel like if there was more. Options that you could properly sit through and discuss your interest, like you know, besides your favorite subject, what are you genuinely passionate about or genuinely good at, and then explore the different avenues that you can take depending on how your exams go, I suppose,
leong: right? Okay. Yeah. The and, and Layla, what, what about you? You know, the source of pressure and are there supports, uh, where your school is? And you do anticipate you’ll get that when, uh, you go off to uni?
Leila: My main source of motivation is my, my like, really stupid fear of embarrassment. Like [00:15:00] I hate looking stupid. So a lot of the time that helps. It’s like, oh my God, if I don’t get this exam, well, I’m gonna look so stupid, and I don’t want my teachers to think I’m stupid. So I guess it’s like, kind of partly that. Mm-hmm. Also, partly my, uh, my classmates my whole year. Actually, it’s quite a small year, but we’re all pretty good friends. They’re very competitive and they’re very smart, so trying to keep up with them can be a big struggle. Right. Okay. But then, like support wise, we haven’t really gotten any guidance. I’ve done all my research by myself, you know? Right. Yeah. Um, I wasn’t even asked about what I wanted to do until the week before school was gonna finish … in June!. Yeah. It’s like, oh yeah, by the way, what do you wanna study? It’s like, um,
leong: okay. There is a [00:16:00] recognition, uh, within education systems about, uh, first of all about exams. That is really a very artificial, after you finish a study, you’re never going to get a task where you just have to remember a whole lot of stuff.
Then you sit down on a table and then you just blurt it out. So, so it’s, it’s actually very artificial. Um, and, and I think. Even a lot of, um, adults are struggling with being tested and, and, you know, knowing actually what, uh, you wanna do, you know, getting ranked and, and stuff like that. So, so I think the main message to young people is that there’re going to be a lot of options and you will see that most people’s path isn’t straight and they move from one to the other. And then there’s always options, but it’s very hard to set up counseling services for that because a lot of, uh, times when you’re at your age, you actually want to know, you know, what is the right answer.
When actually the answer is there is no answer. And, [00:17:00] and so it’s, you know, brings me back to this concept of adventure. That life is an adventure. You just see an adventure. Any single point you’re doing your exam, it’s just part of, you know, uh, a treasure chest that you’re opening up and you just move from one to the other.
And then that’s the, that may be the best way to, to approach it. Mm-hmm. But, uh, for, for the both of you, is your studies the biggest source of stress for you?
ella: Um, I think so. I think it’s the most amount of stress I’ve probably ever felt before. Purely just because like I said before, I just felt like it was the be all, be all, all end all.
But I know it’s not now. Like looking back, now that I’ve done them, like looking back, I’m like, why was I, so that was all I thought about and I was like. It is a shame because I feel like, I mean my poor mother, like I probably shut her down so many times or snapped or, you know, ignored people because I was just so in that like mentality that I just had to sit down, I had to [00:18:00] study and like, I dunno, I just feel like now looking back I can see that it.
Shouldn’t have been so stressful and I probably made it more stressful than it needed to be.
leong: Mm. Yeah.
Leila: It’s very good to hear that. Looking back, you think the studying isn’t so like, because that’s how I’m currently feeling is last year I’m like, oh no, I’m gonna lose all my friends. I’m gonna like miss out on so much.
I know it won’t be like that. Um, I do think, I mean, last year, April and May were absolutely awful because of my studies. Mm-hmm. And like the marks put so much stress on me. ’cause I was like, I did really badly. I was just like, I really need to pick up my game here. And also just how people view you when you fail an exam.
Your teachers and your friends, it’s like you may have studied a lot and you may [00:19:00] understand the content in class, but they only look at your exam result.
leong: Yeah, it, it gets better I think when you’re in school and, and at uni because that’s how life is structured around. Then there’s this over, there’s this perception that it’s actually really, really, really important.
But, um, the, you know, as you get through it, uh. No matter what you come out of, there are lots of options in, uh, terms of career and life, uh, from, from there. So, so just, uh, just be aware that the intense pressure that you’re feeling is actually a very artificial one. You, it’ll keep you going and if you can survive, uh, real life actually won’t be like that.
Leila: Good.
leong: Uh, tell me something about your, your study path. So, I hear a lot of pressure, I hear a lot of, um, uh, stress that that comes out of it, but you feel happy, uh, in, in your studies, uh, being able to do studies?
ella: Yeah, I was happy. I felt [00:20:00] like despite all the stress that comes with it, you do feel like a sense of pride when you get your like results.
Say, I got mine about a week ago or two now, and like. Although like they probably weren’t. Amazing. I’ve unfortunately surrounded myself with very smart friends. Very smart. Yeah. So I suppose it’s just like learning not to like compare yourself to other people and worry about what other people think.
’cause realistically nobody cares. Like nobody cares what. I know Leila was saying, oh, that she, that you feel pressure about like other people seeing your results. I promise you, nobody cares when it comes to the time. Thank God. Everyone’s just like, at least we are done. Like we don’t talk about it. Me and my friends don’t really dwell on it like you say it once.
Oh yeah, I’m happy with my results and you move on. Like, so I suppose. Coming out of my studies, I’m happy that I did it and I’m proud of myself for, ’cause I know I gave it my [00:21:00] best shot.
leong: Yeah, that’s, that’s good. Leila, what, what about you? You happy? Uh, doing studies?
Leila: No. Uh, okay. Yeah. Like in a dream world, I would only be doing psychology.
But this year I have to do biology and English literature.
leong: So you do enjoy studying psychology?
Leila: Yeah, a lot. I’m happy with that. Um, I did well in psychology last year, so I’m excited to get back into it, but I’m not so much happy as having to go back to school.
leong: Right. Yeah.
Leila: But okay. I know I will be, when I get my results, I’ll be really excited to go to university, but.
This year, I’m dreading it.
leong: Well, I’d like to thank the both of you for, for sharing your thoughts. You’ve give, given some, uh, really insightful explanations and description about what, uh, life of a student is like, and, uh, and it’s really useful I think, for a [00:22:00] lot of people, uh, to hear. Good luck with your studies and, um, good luck with life.
Thank you, and thank you again.
And thank you to our audience. I’d like to let you know that this recording with Ella and Leila was done a while back and since then we’re glad to hear that Ella has received her Leaving Certificate exam results and she was delighted with it. She’s now studying Business in Galway and loving it.
Leila is about to take her final exams, so we say good luck to Leila. Thanks for tuning in to this week’s episode. We are all about helping you navigate this wild ride called Student Life. So if you had a blast and found it useful, please leave us a review and tell your friends. Don’t forget to follow the show.
Catch you in the next episode.
SLU S1 E2 Al, Hans, Chern Han – Singapore, Malaysia, UK, Germany transcipt
Al: [00:00:00] The biggest issue I didn’t do in my first year at Uni I think was I didn’t join the, like the internationals community or you know, being involved in that because everyone is just as lost and that’s where you make the friendships. Don’t think you have to just fit in with the locals. You’ll find your way together.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from their families and peers to their studies and dreams. In this episode, I speak to Chern Han, Hans and Al, who are all part of my extended family. Chern Han has studied in Singapore, Malaysia, and Germany. Hans is still in high school but is looking at the US for university. Al who’s like the big brother in this episode, talks about his studies in the UK and how different it was to Malaysia. They talk about fitting into other [00:01:00] communities, not like them, the importance of family, making friends and why studying as male students is somehow different from their female counterparts.
I begin by asking them about their study journey and I start with Al.
Al: I left for the UK when I was 19 after my A levels. It was exciting, like I flew across alone. To me, initially, the most difficult thing about Cardiff, in specific is the Welsh accent. It took me about two weeks to actually understand what my friends were speaking. They’re speaking English, but like, I just couldn’t understand it.
But everything else was exciting. I’ve never cooked before, so I had to learn how to cook. First time I had flats. So you’re in, you know, you’re in a dorm, not a dorm but like essentially a flat with a few rooms and you know, you made friends. It would be Freshers Week so you know, you’d have people just having house parties and meeting people and mingling. [00:02:00]
It was very different from a Malaysian upbringing, quite conservative, meeting a more western sort of culture where they bit more open, bit more free in how they communicate and things like that. So that was, I wouldn’t say it was a culture shock because I think we are, we’re quite exposed to the Western culture but it was interesting.
So that was the social element. Studies was quite different as well, actually compared to in Malaysia where you’re sort of spoonfed information and you gotta memorise for the exams or you know, you don’t really learn how to learn. But you just learn to pass the exam.So I think that was one of the biggest things. I had to retune myself and figure out myself, especially being away from home, was I had to time manage myself. Yeah. So that was the difficulties, I think.
Leong: Mm-hmm. Okay. So Chern Han, what was yours like? Was it similar to what you hear from Al?
Chern Han: Yeah, I think the, you know, the excitement element was really present when I moved from [00:03:00] Singapore to Malaysia. I felt that it was more manageable because like, I think I moved when I was 17, so the step from Singapore to Malaysia I feel like is much smaller compared to, I guess, Singapore to another western country. And especially since, you know, I was staying with mama and I had, you know, Ryan, Hans, and family there as well. So it was like, at least I knew some people.
Leong: Yeah. Then what’s that like then going to Germany?
Chern Han: Uh, I think it was much more difficult for me. I mean, so I went there last year, I think around July, around there, and it was only for three months. So it wasn’t like I was going to university, it was just like for language immersion program and there was not a lot of structure.
So, you know, I just went to a guest family’s house and then from then on it’s just me, like alone. And my guest mother was like really old and she liked to stay at home a lot. So yeah, it was really tough to say the least, but I did learn a lot of stuff, so it’s good.
Leong: Yeah. [00:04:00] Al said that we are quite exposed to the Western culture. I’d like to know whether Germany’s similar because I think we’re exposed to uk, us, and Australia.
Chern Han: Yeah, I felt that, I guess the German’s operate a bit differently I mean like the media that we are most exposed to is American I would say or like British media right, so the expectation and reality wasn’t really there because I kinda knew that Germany was like a whole, like different ball game, like they have different culture and different things, so.
Leong: Well, tell us what were the differences?
Chern Han: I mean, okay. I guess one thing I noticed was how Asian they are in some way. They are not as outspoken as I guess I expected them to be, so they were still really polite. I mean, yeah, it was kind of unexpected.
Leong: Yeah. Okay.Hans, I’d like to hear, have you thought of whether you want to go overseas and, um, and, you know, which country?
Hans: Uh, yeah. I was considering, to maybe go to the [00:05:00] United States, like my brother. I would also maybe look at like some other options, maybe like Australia or something.
Leong: Mm-hmm. What is it about the US that attracts you now?
Hans: I think the United States education system is a little more innovative, so it allows you to do more things. It’s not like just sit down and you just do an exam. I like it more ’cause I don’t really like the traditional way of studying.
Leong: Yeah. Do you get supported on different ways of studying in Malaysia now? Are choices limited in your school and your, the education system there?
Hans: I think it’s not really that it’s limited, it’s just that there’s not much else to do other than just like study. And do work. I’ve heard that like in places like the US the student life is a lot better.
Leong: Mm. Al and Chern Han now hearing this, what is it like, what’s [00:06:00] extracurricular activities like in the UK and for Chern Han the difference between Malaysia and Singapore and a bit about Germany from what you’ve seen?
Al: It was very much what you decided you wanted it to be. So I think I found that a bit difficult at first because if you wanted it, you’ve gotta go get it and, no one’s sort of gonna put you into this club or get you doing this or get you doing that?
Personally for me, it was playing football or soccer. There is a big Malaysian community in Cardiff and in the UK as well so what they do is, they have like Malaysian games, so you’ve got Sheffield, you know, Sheffield University would organize something in all the Malaysians who travel up there and things like that.
So I was involved in that a little bit because I knew people from here and they set me up and we traveled around and played, but it was more the local sports that I had to push a little bit for, again outside my comfort zone and, [00:07:00] go for it.
Leong: Is it similar for you, Chern Han?
Chern Han: Um, I think I can compare between Singapore and Malaysia. I really prefer like the extra curricular in Malaysia, simply because they didn’t really mandate you to have like an extracurricular, whereas in Singapore, it’s kind of like a social thing where you just know what you have to do.
Yeah. I mostly did art and stuff, but these were all just because I was kind of required to so, I didn’t really fully have a passion, but I just did it. But then when I was in Malaysia, there was like, you know, Rock climbing, you know, I could do try out different things also. It was really free and I enjoyed it a lot.
Al: Was that through the University?
Chern Han: Uh, no, it was international school, high school.
Al: Oh, so it was through the school that they had rock climbing?
Chern Han: Yeah.
Al: That’s a bit of Malaysia. I never knew!
Leong: Yeah. It’s not what I remember as well!
Al: ah, yeah, no.
Leong: Alright, now I’d like to actually ask specifically for the three of you about gender, about male experience in schooling and your [00:08:00] observations of whether is different in Malaysia, Singapore for male students, versus female students. We’ll start with Chern Han. Do you see a difference between, for instance, the way your student life is versus your sisters for instance?
Chern Han: I think like just the way guys operate and stuff, there are a lot of pros and cons when it comes down to it.
Leong: Okay.
Chern Han: I think guys are just in general, more. rough and they like to have fun more, so in some aspects it makes like learning much more casual and fun like that. I mean, one thing that we noticed, like me and my friends, is that there was really a lack of drama because there wasn’t really much guy/girl tension stuff like that.
I mean because since there like literally no girls, so there’s really not much about. I mean there’s actually a girl school, like right across us. Opposite us. The drama would usually consist of people [00:09:00] meeting on the bridge and having girlfriends in other schools. It was really the extent of it.
Leong: So Al the, the difference, studying in a co-ed school, which obviously you met your future wife there as well.
Al: I managed to charm her and she did a lot of my homework. So that was, that was pretty good. Yeah. It’s just giving it a look right now actually. Um, okay. I think among boys, we generally get distracted quite easily or similar to what Han said, so it’s not like drama distracted, but it’s more our mind just gets distracted. We just wanna play, we just wanna do things. Mm-hmm. But I like the co-ed concept as well, because yes, there’s all the girls drama, but you can always walk away from that. But they, they sort of put pressure on you ’cause they, they tend to be more focused and they tend to be more stressed out about homework or whatever.
So even in the same group as them, they sort of crack the whip and you don’t wanna let them down. You don’t wanna cause an issue. So because if it’s all just boys, I think in my school anyway, we would not be doing anything. It was good to have that [00:10:00] mix of everything and I learned a lot. Managing people by talking to girls more than guys, ’cause sometimes you can only talk so much to guys and they just hit a brick wall and that’s all you’re getting back. And I’m like, ah, okay. So, so it was nice to get that sort of other element of things, personally, but that could just be me anyway.
Leong: Okay.Yeah, it’s interesting. What about the subjects and your potential future career. Do you see a difference, well for yourself as a male? Do you choose subjects that you see the girls tend to select less?
Al: I would say yes, to a certain extent. It’s not so much the subjects, I think it’s more the career path. In Malaysia, it’s very much you do Science or Arts. I’m not sure if it’s now the same. So it’s, it’s those two sort of, and then you’ve got accountancy ish. But it’s more what you do with the science ’cause everyone takes the same subjects, but it’s what you branch out to do, whether it’s medicine, whether it’s [00:11:00] engineering.
That tends to be a bit more gender bias, I think. More girls do medicine, more boys do engineering and more sort of Physics based subjects. And chemistry tends to be more the ladies as well. That’s what I find anyway.
Leong: Right. Okay. So you end up choosing health. So in, in podiatry, did you actually feel pressure that you need to conform to the engineering and you know, that that male stereotype?
Al: Um, not so much because I think that being a podiatrist, it was very niche anyway and there are not many people that did it, so it was mom sort of left me to do what I wanted to. Like she trusted me, you know, so for me, I saw the pros, the cons and sort of, it was not going with the flow, it’s not with the masses.
I did something different, which panned out really well. So I didn’t really feel that pressure. I didn’t allow that to affect me so much.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. Hans, [00:12:00] what are your career choices at the moment and do you feel the influence of, you know, other boys doing similar subjects?
Hans: For my career choice, I think I’m sort of going more towards the engineering side. So yeah, obviously I’m like kind of conforming to the stereotype, but I think I’m pursuing it more based on personal passion rather than like sort of pressure. Okay. I know some people who are pursuing it because their parents basically told them to.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. Chern Han?
Chern Han: I’m currently applying for Engineering courses, it’s the only thing I’m applying for. So yeah, like what Hans said, I guess kind of conforming and I don’t even have like a particular passion. I just feel like it’s something that kind of sounds right in way and it’s something that, you know, I’ve heard people do like for many years, so I’m just gonna stick to it. It’s like the easiest option, this point.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. And that passion might come later on? I think so. Hopefully, yeah. Okay. Now what is it like [00:13:00] having that family support while you’re doing your studies, at different stages?
Al: For me personally, I think it was different because mom, mom was a baker. She worked at home, so a lot of the times the dining table was the life of the house.
So that’s where we studied, that’s where we played. It’s already everything there. So when it was with the family, it was a lot more chaotic and lively, but we were there, she knew what we did, and, and it was, it was different. Whereas when I left I had to, you know, kick my own bum and put pressure on myself. The studying, that’s okay, it’s the courses and to manage the time with that was the tricky thing.
Leong: Mm-hmm. Okay. So Chern Han?
Chern Han: In terms of family support and studies, right. I feel like over the years I kind of recognise that there are just some problems that it’s kind of hard for my parents to support me in. I mean, in terms of like emotional support and maybe even academic help, so. The biggest thing that I noticed, like my dad [00:14:00] kind of helped me when I was in Malaysia is really just sending me around places, which sounds kind of minor and I don’t know how it sounds but it really made my life much easier and also the time. I guess I really appreciated the time spent together with him, like the car as well, even though we didn’t talk much, but it was still something that didn’t really occur for many years because in Singapore we, you know, we don’t really travel by car. It’s usually by public transport.
Leong: Yeah. So that bonding that, that happens, I mean, it’s not obvious, but it’s happened. The fact that he’s actually with you and, and sending you around to schools sounds like it’s very important for you.
Al: That’s good. It’s very personal.
Leong: Yeah. Now I’d like to talk about something related, which is the stress and the impact on mental health on all different parts of your family life. You know, moving away and going to different places. At what stage was the stress highest?
Al: I think I was very fortunate in school to have a very [00:15:00] relaxed mindset, so I always looked at, from PMR so 15 onwards, what did I need to get to the next pass, path, right?
I’m a very big believer of the um, 80 20 rule. Even at a very young age. So it’s sort of, you get 80% of the progress with 20% of the work sort of thing. And, and yeah. So I sort of cruised reasonably well through school with that, with the study side of things. Yeah, it was a social, social aspects that would’ve hit me hard, harder. But I had a very close knit family that I didn’t miss out much because of that. And I have very good, very good friends. So I had very few close friends, but good friends.
Leong: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So with that friendship group, what’s where to support this? Yeah.
Al: A big part of that, yes. For example, most of the friends I have, I’ve got handpicked a few friends that I still to today keep in touch with and had throughout my life. And the family. Family was key I think. It [00:16:00] sort of made sure that I went back to something safe, something fun, something secure. And that, and I think for, for me, a big part as well is like, I grew up without a dad. Um, so that was key. You know what I mean? Like, so when, when I hear Chern Han talking about the time, you know, his dad sends him the car, you know? I can see how valuable that is. ’cause that is, it’s one-on-one time that you don’t actually, um, you don’t think you’re valued until it’s sort of gone. And like, so now he’s away, he looks back and, oh yeah he actually appreciated it, you know, but in the moment it’s just, oh, he’s sending me down 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Yeah. But I, I hear that from you and I see that from you as well, so it’s nice that you have that.
Leong: So, Chern Han, what is stress like? What’s it like in terms of impact on your mental health, uh, during your studies and, you know, how do you cope with it?
Chern Han: It’s a bit tough to answer. I mean, stress is kind of a really general term.
So there were like varying types of stress, I would say, and for some reason I feel like academic wasn’t a really, wasn’t like a particular thing that I was constantly worried about. It was more social, I would [00:17:00] say. So when moving to a new country, you know, you’re leaving like your old friends behind and making new friends. That gave me a lot of stress. And I think the stress personally comes during like periods of loneliness. So when there’s like maybe exam period and then people are not talking as much. That really makes me, it troubles me a lot.
Leong: Right.
Chern Han: Okay. It’s hard to say how to manage it, but mainly just staying in contact with loved ones, I guess.
Leong: Right. Okay. Do you do special things with friends and within family?
Chern Han: No. My favourite activity is really just having meals with people because it’s, I mean, it’s very chill there’s no expectations, and you just eat and talk. So that’s what I usually do.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. So Hans, do you experience, stress and if you do, how do you handle it?
Hans: Uh, yeah. Of course, as a student, I experience my fair share of stressful moments, but I think the way I cope with stress is basically [00:18:00] is just to just deal with it and just keep going.
Leong: Okay.
Hans: I know like some people may have like other methods to deal with stress, but I find that it’s most productive for me to just carry on and like, stress now in order to benefit later. So I think that kind of mindset also kind of helps me keep going. Yeah.
Leong: So you mean you focus on the work in what actually needs to be done?
Hans: Yes.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. Do you see your fellow students doing the same thing or the way that you cope is quite different from them?
Hans: I think a lot of the students that I am friends with do pretty much what I do. It’s quite common to just, in our words, thug it out. So.
Leong: Hmm. Is the stress coming from expectations or for achievement or where’s the source of the stress?
Hans: Because I’m in my last year of high school, most of the stress is coming from [00:19:00] our exams, our GCSE’s. A lot of the pressure that I feel is mainly from myself ’cause. I think by nature I have very high expectations of myself, so I kind of feel that like inherent need to perform and I kind of stress out about it even though there’s, there’s not really much external pressure.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. Does the school offer support for, uh, stresses like this?
Hans: Yes. As a school counselor, but if I’m being honest, not a lot of people seek help from the school counselor. So I think actually the main source of help that most people get is with their own friends with each other. So
Leong: Al I see you nodding about the school counselor. Is that, did your school have a school counselor as well?
Al: Yeah, he, he was the football coach like that. The extent of what I knew he was was my football coach.
Leong: Do do you see other students handling their stress well?
Hans: Honestly [00:20:00] speaking, I think that stress is not a very discussed topic, so people, or at least in my experience, don’t really talk about stress.
Occasionally, it’s just like they give like a one-liner. It’s like, oh, it’s like this stays been so stressful. Something like that. From what I’ve seen. A lot of them go to the gym to de-stress.
Al: You run though, right?
Hans: I run and go to the gym, yeah.
Al: Do you find that quite good, like to de-stress? Is it your relief?
Hans: I think it partially does, but I also mainly do it as like a, like a hobby.
Leong: I think you, you do drums now as well and you uh, you do quite a lot of music.
Hans: Oh yeah. I stopped playing the violin. Because I wasn’t really enjoying it, but I picked up the drums, so I’m doing that now. Yeah.
Leong: Does it help in terms of relief from stress and, you know, enjoyment by doing all these activities?
Hans: I think in a way, yeah, like temporarily, like after [00:21:00] school, if you just wanna take your mind off work, you can. Just drum for an hour in my experience. Just drum for an hour and then you sort of get distracted from what you’re stressing on about.
Al: There must be something biological or physiological about smashing, you know, a few things and just letting it out. Like I’m sure, I’m sure that would be really good.
Leong: So Chern Han what do you, do you smash things?
Chern Han: No! I don’t have that biological trait. I’m more towards artists activities so I’m doing like calligraphy now and drawing.
Leong: Do you fall back on that at times when you need distraction or when stress is high?
Chern Han: I’m still testing it out just because this like a hobby and I haven’t had a lot of stress in my life. But I think once I go to Uni I will test that thing out to see if it really helps me de-stress, but it brings me a lot of comfort and relaxation. So.
Leong: So that sounds quite different. There hasn’t been much stress. So exam stress is, sounds to me like it’s relatively low for you.
Chern Han: I mean, I used to [00:22:00] place a lot of stress on it, so I realise that there’s just a point where you have to kind of give it up for the sake of, I don’t want to say ‘happy’, I mean it sounds a bit cliched but I mean it’s true. The less expectations you have for something the more relaxed you can experience life, I would say.
Leong: How did you come to that? Did something happen or you know, what triggered you to have that realisation?
Chern Han: I think it was just an observation. Like I think when I moved to, I moved to Malaysia, I was a bit unhappy in my study life in Singapore and grades were kind of a big thing as well. And then I compared my mindset then, to how I was thinking in Malaysia, where I wasn’t doing the best, but I was really happy and actually enjoyed gonna school. So just that comparison is enough for me to make this decision that, you know, even though I might be doing well, but so much stress on myself is not worth it, I [00:23:00] would say.
Leong: Yeah, I have actually one last thing that I’d like to ask, all of you, which is, to talk to each other because there’s quite a gap between, you know, Al’s age and Hans. Al what would be the thing that, you found has been most difficult, with school and what would you advise Hans, who is yet to complete a lot of that journey, you know, similar for, for Chern Han and then for Hans? What are the things you wanna find out?
Al: I think for Hans, well, he is. He’s got his head screwed on a lot more than I did. But like the advice I think that would be relevant for him is, I know in the past, I knew sort of what I wanted to do at a very young age and I sort of just got enough to do whatever, you know, just it’s big picture, right? Because you can stress out about getting all straight As and things like that, but you might get one B.
It doesn’t mean you can’t get into that school, you know, it doesn’t mean you can’t do what you need to do. So if it does happen, that’s life. The biggest thing is work consistently. It’s the tiniest things every single day adds up to a massive difference. Have a goal, [00:24:00] definitely have a goal, write it down, and then you can visualize it and that makes a massive difference.
Leong: That’s, that’s good advice. So, Chern Han you can ask Al about things that might come and, what advice do you have for Hans as well?
Chern Han: Okay. I don’t think I have any advice for Hans. I feel like he has gotten it all figured out. I mean, yeah, he’s doing quite well.
Al: I know he’s a very hard, difficult person to be giving advice.He just, you know what I mean? He’s got it all sorted.
Leong: Any questions for Alaric?
Chern Han: Yes. In terms of Uni, I mean, just things I have to take note of that you think might be helpful for me. Because I mean I do get anxious about a lot of things, in terms of friends and stuff like that.
Al: If it’s a social element, I think the world’s a very small place, but always have a bit of home close to you, depending where you are. But I’m sure they have some form of a Malaysian community, or even Singaporean community, or an Asian community. What I realised quite early on is the internationals to that country go through the same thing you go through.
Someone [00:25:00] can be coming Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia, wherever, speak completely different languages, but you all go through the same struggles of moving to that country. Do you know what I mean? So the biggest issue I didn’t do in my first year at uni I think was I didn’t join the, like the internationals community or you know, being involved in that.
Because everyone is just as lost and that’s where you make the friendships. So socially, I think definitely look into that. You know, don’t sort of try to squeeze in or do your own thing. You can do your own thing, definitely. But don’t think you have to just fit in with the locals, you know what I mean?
Have a bit of that because everyone’s lost. You’ll find your way together and that makes a massive difference like feeling at home. Because you make your own home.
Leong: Alright, thanks Al. Hans, do you have things that you think Chern Han might have gone through or Alaric might have gone through that you’d like to ask?
Hans: Yeah, actually I think this sort of applies to both Alaric and Chern Han ’cause you guys went to different countries like, ’cause when you go to a different country, you’re basically all alone. You have to find your own path. I just [00:26:00] wanted to ask, like, do you have help to set up everything or do you just figure it out as you go.
Al: Are you talking about friends or just life? Like what to do?
Hans: Actually, both.
Al: Both, I would say have a rough idea of, again, pick a destination ish, right? But the path doesn’t matter ’cause you won’t know your three steps because it’s a whole different country. You’ve never been there. You don’t know what to expect. But don’t beat yourself up because that’s one thing I learned in life is there’s no such thing as a wrong decision. It’s what you make out of it.
Leong: So Chern Han?
Chern Han: I think one mistake that I made was, you know those moments where you don’t really click with someone? I that a bit too personally. I was like, is there something wrong with me? But you’ll meet a lot of people and I believe that.
Al: Like Han, you can make a friend or not make a friend, you know what I mean? But that’s not a bad thing. So you sort of know, I don’t like this type of personality, or I didn’t click at this time, because it could be you, it could be them, but you know, you transition away. So that’s socially, [00:27:00] with work, with anything really, there’s no such thing as wrong. So just don’t beat yourself up and enjoy the ride. It’s new, it’s exciting.
Leong: That’s Chern Han, Hans and Al. We got through a lot in that episode. What’s really interesting in doing this series is what comes up in conversations, a lot of which has never been discussed before. That’s one thing we hope to achieve in this podcast, to spur conversations that normally wouldn’t happen even with family members we see every day.
Thanks for tuning into this week’s episode. We are recruiting more students for our next series, so please get in touch. If you are interested in taking part, follow the link in our show notes. And if you found this useful, please leave us a review and tell your friends as word of mouth is the best.
Thanks. Don’t forget to follow the show. Catch you in the next [00:28:00] episode.
SLU S1 E3 – NICA AND JERICA – PHILIPPINES transcript
JERICA: [00:00:00] For me, since I’m under scholarship. I need to pass my Japanese class. I am afraid to take the exam.
LEONG: It’s, it’s only the Japanese class. Yeah. What’s the consequences if you don’t pass the Japanese class?
JERICA: Uh, I will give all the scholarship back.
LEONG: Oh, right,
NICA: yeah.
LEONG: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives. From their families and peers to their studies and dreams. In this episode, we discussed the challenges of learning in a country where you don’t speak the language. Nica and Jerica are both from the Philippines, but moved to Japan as students.
For Nica, her move was when she was still in school and she had to adapt to a new life there. Jerich moved as an exchange student while in university. [00:01:00] Both speak about making friends and learning. While adapting to the language and culture, I first asked them about what led them to Japan and to compare what they expected with what they actually experienced.
NICA: I really wanted to go to Japan. My mom and dad, um, kind of immigrated here when I was like five years old. So I kind of wanted to live in Japan because you know, Japan’s very, it’s very high tech with all the robots and stuff. I kinda had that image. So I’ve always wanted to live here. But when I got here, well, at first it was hard, but now, you know, I kind of.
Got used to the lifestyle and I really enjoy living here.
LEONG: What do you mean it was hard?
NICA: Well, I, first of all, I was, I did not know how to speak Japanese. I kind of just knew how to say ua. Yeah. Like hello and good morning in [00:02:00] Japanese. That’s all I knew. Communication was such a big, uh, problem for me. Plus, um, there were not really a lot of Filipinos or like just.
Foreigners in my school, so I kinda had a hard time adjusting. The normal Japanese students don’t really have the same. Um, you know, customs or cultures or kind of upbringing as me, so I kind of, it was kind of hard to make friends.
LEONG: Is that same for you, Jerica?
NICA: Uh, yeah.
JERICA: Yeah. Actually,
LEONG: tell us about your background and what got you to Japan.
JERICA: I actually want to go to Japan because my mom used to work here, and when I was in elementary. So my mom always got me some Hello Kitty or other stuff from Japan and like I used to bring them to school and then show it to my classmate, like, Hey, I got this from Japan. And like, you know what? It was so fun to be there with my mom, but honestly, I, I’ve never been there.
I’m just like making up stories since I was, I was just a little kid. [00:03:00] Same. Yeah. So. My host home university in the Philippines gave me this opportunity to study abroad. So I had like to choose three countries. So my first choice was Japan. Um, these past months, past, I’ve experienced so many things in Japan.
However, back in the Philippines, I used to live in the city When I went to Japan. I live in a province and my dormitory is up the hill. Like if you, if you go to my dormitory, you will see just one dormitory and around that is like forest and it’s really uphill and you will see mount Fuji. So it’s kind of, it’s a bit struggling for me to walk like a lot.
Mm. So I have to, to walk for 30 minutes before I, I reach the station. Or just to take a bus or like train. [00:04:00] So yeah, but I finally like get used to it to live in Japan and to walk a lot.
LEONG: Mm-hmm. So both of you then, uh, found it very different. When you first arrived, how did you adapt? Was adapting to the language, the main thing for the two of you?
NICA: Yeah, of course the main part is the language, but it was also hard for me to adapt with the, just the environment like. You know, Filipinos and Japanese people, they’re very different in a way. Mm-hmm.
LEONG: In in what way?
NICA: Just personality wise, they’re very different. Yeah. I’m not saying that they’re, they’re like mean or cold or, or something.
They’re just kind of compared to Filipinos, you know, they’re just kind of more reserved. Yeah. And they care about like. Being on time. Mm-hmm. So like today I kind of overslept. Right. If this was a Japanese meeting, I would be dead right now. Yeah. They’re [00:05:00] very strict on manners, which makes them very polite, which, and I think it’s a good thing.
Mm-hmm. But I think that was the hard part for me when I was in elementary school. Yeah. Because in the Philippines, of course we had manners and stuff, but you know, we don’t really. We, we don’t really care too much about how, what degree of a bow we should do when talking to an elder or something. Mm mm-hmm.
And like how we should not eat before, you know, everyone’s lunch is contributed, we should not eat. It’s like there were just lots and lots of rules during my elementary school and high school and junior high school and, you know, everyone kind of followed them and I kind of, I didn’t know that it was that strict.
It was kind of hard for me to kind of follow. And also as for Japanese people, they’re very polite. They’re very kind. They’re very well mannered. But you feel a, a distance between them. Yeah. In the Philippines, like when you like, speak to someone, you, you don’t really, it’s easy to get along. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very easy [00:06:00] to get along.
We can, like, nobody really cares much about your ethnicity or something. Mm-hmm. But like when I got here to Japan, it kind of, when I first. Meet or like speak to someone. I kind of feel a bit of a, a distance between that person, like they’re a bit more reserved and they’re a bit more quiet and maybe like they think of you as a foreigner.
Mm-hmm. I don’t know when you first speak to them.
LEONG: Did you notice that too? Jerica?
JERICA: Yeah.
LEONG: What was your experience like
JERICA: When I was in the Philippines, so there are so many people that have mistakenly thought that I was Japanese. So when I first arrived in Japan, I was so excited. I. That time, like I was smiling because I feel so welcome.
Like everybody thought that I was Japanese, so I just, I just like, okay, I’ll play. I’ll also play my role if you want me to do that. And then so when I had the first class in my host university, we had this [00:07:00] like conversation buddies. We called, they need to entertain at least, or like talk to me too. Get to know the place.
So when I first met like three Japanese girls, at first it was so hard for me to talk to them because they are speaking to in Japanese, and I’m like, or like, like I speak Japanese a little, just a little. So we had a, like a hard time to communicate that time. After that they, they never sent me a message or they, we never hung out again.
Mm-hmm. So that was my first week in Japan. So I’m like, oh no. It’s so hard to, to talk to them. So what I see there is that maybe it’s the language. Mm-hmm. Japanese people will not talk to you unless you talk to them in Japanese. Oh, yeah. Because Oh, yeah, yeah. Right. Because they will. They will not talk to you or like they will distance their self.[00:08:00]
LEONG: How’s that different from, uh, from Philippines? Uh, how Philippines treat foreigners versus how you notice Japanese, uh, treat foreigners?
JERICA: I know like Japanese are hospitable as well, but maybe they’re, it’s just the language barrier. But in the Philippines, most of everyone there speaks English. Uh, you don’t actually have any hard time to. talk to them or communicate to them because they will at least try.
NICA: But here in Japan, I think, well, my friend actually told this, but like I kind of asked him why, why Japanese people are kind of, kind of a bit cold to foreigners and stuff. But he said that, you know, they’re not cold. Japanese people are not cold.
They’re just kind of. They just don’t know how to speak English. Yeah. And mm-hmm. Exactly. They’re just afraid of kind of making mistakes. Yeah. Maybe their pronunciation, their grammar. I don’t know.
LEONG: Yeah. So it’s the reverse, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. So common we have this misunderstanding that somebody doesn’t wanna talk [00:09:00] to us, but Yeah.
Yeah. It’s really that they’re not sure about, about speaking your language. Yeah. So now how was it in school and at university? Do you have, uh, the same language problems with teachers as well?
NICA: Well, um. Well, back in elementary school and then junior high school, I really did not know how to speak Japanese.
Um, so I kind of relied heavily on my teachers. Well, during elementary I did not have friends, so kind of, I kind of just talked to my teachers and they kind of helped me a lot. They kind of know I was struggling with the language, so they, they did their best to make my student life easier. Yeah. And as I got to junior high school and high school, I kind of made friends, so I didn’t.
So yeah, I kind of relied more on my friends for like that in language aspects.
LEONG: What about you, Jerica at university? That language barrier, was that a big one?
JERICA: Uh, actually they only offered like few English classes, so I took like two English classes [00:10:00] and then one bilingual class, which is being taught in Japanese and English, and then one Japanese class, which is.
Like fully taught in Japanese, so this Japanese class. I don’t know how I survive this class because okay, in, in the class I sometimes like doubt myself. How did I understand what my sensei or my professor is speaking? I actually understand what she’s saying. Even she’s speaking Japanese. So I’m like, we have like the connection already in the class.
That’s why I’m enjoying like to listen and at least try to understand what she’s saying in class.
LEONG: Hmm. Okay. Uh, Nica, how do you find studies now and, and especially for you now going from, you know, secondary school now going to university, you know, that change?
NICA: Well, I actually really enjoy learning now since I, I kind of understand Japanese better.
I mean, I, I don’t like test exams, so I do not like them, but like, I’m just really [00:11:00] interested in like. Listening to the, to the teacher, I guess.
LEONG: And your own studies. Do you enjoy that?
NICA: Yes, actually I really enjoy them. I find them hard. Of course, I actually took, um, a class that’s about like politics or something.
It was very hard, but like it was super interesting. Yeah.
LEONG: Right. So Jerica, um, so your experience, um, comparing studying in Philippines and this exchange in Japan?
JERICA: It’s quite heavy for me to study back home, but when I came to like Japan and study here, I’m not sure if just like exchange student benefits or advantage to not experience being stressed in classes.
Mm-hmm. So for me it’s quite. Not easy, but maybe manageable. Mm. However, there is some part that I also struggle because we only meet once a week. Oh yeah, yeah. Right. So for me, studying Japanese, my Japanese [00:12:00] class, it wasn’t like enough for me to like get to know the language very well because we only meet like just once a week.
And so what I’m gonna do is like to study alone or like study, like self-study or something, but. I’m not that good when studying alone. Mm-hmm. Like, I need someone who will teach me, because some, some of the parts that I, I will totally not understand.
LEONG: Is it quite common this, uh, thing that you have to study by yourself and very little contact hours?
Is that in general for most courses?
JERICA: Yeah. It’s actually in general.
LEONG: How do you see other students do it?
JERICA: Uh, so I have like this Filipino classmate who also came from my home university. She’s also like that.
LEONG: Okay. Is there a lot of pressure, you know, for both of you to, uh, to succeed? How’s that compared, you know, Jerich that compare to Philippines?
This pressure to pass exams to,
JERICA: for me, since I am [00:13:00] under scholarship. I need to pass my Japanese class, so I don’t, for me, I, I did not struggle with my English classes and. Bilingual class, but in this Japanese class, I was so pressured because I am afraid to take the exam.
LEONG: It’s, it’s only the Japanese class.
Yeah. What’s the consequences if you don’t pass the Japanese class?
JERICA: Uh, I will give all the scholarship back.
LEONG: Oh,
NICA: right.
JERICA: Yeah.
NICA: I’m also under scholarship, I think. I don’t think it’s the same as her. There’s like a requirement. Like how much units you should take and how your GPA should be, you know? So of course I kind of feel pressure from that and also from from moment, uh, they, um, they expect a lot from me.
LEONG: Yeah. How, how do you tell when your parents actually have, you have pressure from parents? Is it from your perception or do they say something to you?
NICA: I think it’s mostly my perception, but when we. [00:14:00] Talk about our future jobs. Mm-hmm. What kind of career path I wanna walk on in the future. You know, I kind of feel a bit of pressure.
Mm-hmm.
LEONG: So, Jerica, do you, uh, what’s your family’s view of your studies? Um,
JERICA: They’re actually fine like. They are not that strict as when I, when back in my high school, I always talk to them like, don’t expect too much from me. I’m not really good in at school, so please don’t pressure me because back when I was in elementary, they, they actually expect something more.
But yeah, when, when I reached college I just studied so much, like a lot. I’m maintaining my grades at least to get this flying color. So that’s kind of a pressure for me. But for parents, they’re fine.
LEONG: Well, let’s, let’s talk about your social life. How important is social life, um, do you think for a student, Nica,
NICA: it’s very important actually.
Of course. Um, it’s important to, [00:15:00] you know, have fun with your friends, have fun with your club members, and like do activities together. But what I find most important is that when you are struggling. And since I live alone and my parents are like an hour away when I struggle or when I kind of have problems, the people that I can rely on are my friends from university because yeah, most of them also live alone.
Mm-hmm. And well, not only the emotional support part, but also the, uh. During, you know, exam week or something, you kind of have to obtain like the past exam papers from your friends. It’s like one paper, but it’s very, very important and it saves you a lot of time just to like get the, get the unit. So, yeah.
I am always very grateful for my friends during exam.
LEONG: So what, what’s social life, uh, like for you? How important is it and, you know, what do you [00:16:00] do for social life?
JERICA: Uh, actually, um, back in my home university, I used to get like, get so much time with my friends, of course. Like when it comes to academics or just like.
Hanging out or drinking after class, right? So it’s quite normal in my home university. We don’t need to schedule that. Like for example, today, okay, let’s go after class or something like that. We never, we never schedule anything because I don’t know, maybe everyone’s free or maybe we just want to go out as well, because they also feel burnout. But here in Japan, some of my Japanese friends, it was quite hard for me to talk to them because I know they are busy. So for example, I want to like go shopping. They will say, oh, I’m sorry. I’m not free that day. I have, I need to do like this thing and this thing. So what I see there is that.
Um, their schedule [00:17:00] is already full before I ask for them to like accompany me. I’m always staying in my dormitory, so. Okay.
LEONG: It sounds like emotional support is not as much as what you used to in Yeah. In the Philippines.
NICA: Yeah. Yeah.
LEONG: And is that what you notice for a lot of students as well? That um, they don’t rely on each other as much.
For emotional support.
JERICA: Uh, maybe it’s actually different that it is because they can speak Japanese and I know they will not understand me that much if I speak English as I know that. Yeah, yeah,
LEONG: yeah. So it’s actually the language barrier there. Yeah. Nica, how, how do you make friends.
NICA: How do I make friends?
I kind of just talk to the person I kind of sat with next to like a class.
LEONG: Okay.
NICA: Mm-hmm. Or maybe a friend’s friend, you know, and then, you know, kind of trying to get friendly and stuff. Yeah.
LEONG: What about activities, uh, at, at university?
NICA: Well, I’m, I’m [00:18:00] actually in the, um, school festival comedy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow.
You know, we have meetings every week. So again, try to get along with, uh, with the, with the. With the seniors and also get along with, uh, people with the same grade as me. Yeah.
LEONG: So then other students would join these festivals and these activities that you organize.
NICA: Yes, yes, yes. It’s actually very fun.
Jerica, I think you went to the school festival, right?
JERICA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve been there. How was it? It was good because there are so many food. Well, that, that’s the only thing I want. The food. Okay.
NICA: Yeah.
JERICA: However, it’s very food. Maybe if I compare it to the Philippine, it’s quite expensive, but in Japan it’s, it’s actually cheap.
Oh yeah.
LEONG: Hmm. What’s food like over there? The cafes restaurants.
JERICA: Oh, so there are like some booths, like they sell, um, sausage, like sweet potato maybe. Sweet potato, [00:19:00] popcorn. Some drinks like that. Yeah.
LEONG: Bars. Do they have
JERICA: No, no, no, no.
LEONG: Okay. Okay.
JERICA: Like it’s open for everyone. So there are so many Japanese like family.
Go there.
LEONG: So nightlife is not as active as, um, it’s not really active?
JERICA: In japan. Back home maybe I used to do that, but when I am here in Japan, I never risk to go out. You can smoke freely inside the club. So I don’t like that. Like I probably suffocate myself if I smell the smoke or the cigarettes.
LEONG: Mm-hmm. Well, um, what, what I’d like to end with is actually asking you to tell the other person your, your advice.
So like, Jerica, what would you tell Nica who’s just starting out first year uni, what could she expect with studies in the next few years?
JERICA: Maybe the first thing is don’t pressure yourself.
NICA: Okay.
JERICA: [00:20:00] Put your feelings or emotion into something that you may feel happy or motivated, and. Always don’t forget to have me time or self-care.
Not just your mental health, but also your physical health. And of course, maybe start planning for your future. Maybe it’ll change if you gain more experience. So if you want to be a teacher and then you wanted to be a doctor now. So being delayed in college is, is actually okay. It’s a sign that you are learning.
You. You get to know yourself more and yeah. Don’t be afraid and just embrace the challenges.
NICA: Thank you. Thank you for the advice.
LEONG: Uh, that’s really good advice. I mean, not to have fear to experiment and, uh, we find that most people that are more stable later down in life have had the chance and not be afraid to experiment that.
NICA: Yeah. Yeah.
LEONG: But Nica, I I want to ask you, so if, if somebody new, a [00:21:00] new foreign student comes to Japan. And, you know, you’ve been there for, for many years. You know, what, what would your advice be for somebody like that?
NICA: Just talk with Japanese students. If I look back to my, um, 10-year-old me, you know, I used to be very shy about my Japanese.
I, of course, I was very scared about using the wrong grammar or like having the wrong pronunciation. Mm-hmm. I should’ve spoke more and make more mistakes in improving my Japanese. So my advice would be just to talk more, and if you talk more than, well, the Japanese person will kind of gradually open up to you.
And become more friendly. Yeah, and to also try to participate in like programs I guess. Like there are lots of like language exchange programs here and university and I think, I think it would be a good experience to join those programs. Yeah. I think it’ll benefit you a lot. Yeah,
LEONG: [00:22:00] Right. I think the both of you are giving advice to the audience to not be afraid to experiment, try things, and don’t be afraid to take, make mistakes, which are very good advice.
That was Nica and Jerica. How fascinating to hear the experiences studying between two countries so close on the world map. Yet so far apart in cultures and daily life, we’re aiming to touch as many countries as we can in our podcast. If you’d like to take part, please see the information in show notes and get in touch.
Also for this episode, I’m aware we’re only hearing a foreigners experience of Japan, so if you’re Japanese, we’d especially love to hear from you. But for now, we hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. If you like what you’re hearing, please follow the show and tell your friends. See you in the next episode.
SLU S1 E4 DIANA AND KRISTINE HUNGARY, ITALY, GEORGIA transcript
DIANA: [00:00:00] At times it really feels like very, very lonely. I mean, yeah, you have, you know, family back home who are trying to support you, but it’s so much different when you have people in front of you, like, you know mm-hmm. Like, uh, in-person communication. Um, so I think like the main thing is there like, like don’t put too much pressure on yourself.
Just the fact that you had the willpower and, you know, strength to move somewhere. Yeah. Like start from zero. That makes you already like someone that’s very strong and very resilient.
LEONG: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from their families and peers to their studies and dreams. In today’s podcast, I speak to Kristine and Diana. Both from Georgia, that’s the country, not the American state.
Kristine studied journalism in her home country and is now doing a masters in international relations in Bologna. Diana is studying media and communications in Budapest, but she wants [00:01:00] to pursue a career that will involve promoting better education back home in Georgia. Here they speak enthusiastically about their home country and this rich culture, the sense of community, where they come from and how to find this in their new lives.
We talk about student life back home and compare this to their experience in Hungary and Italy. I begin by asking them about what education and student life is like back in Georgia.
DIANA: I would say that Georgia education system is very fact-based. So you are usually feed a lot of information, a lot of facts, you know, um, a lot of data to process. But the, the issue with that is that you actually never get to, you know, um, kind of related to everyday life. For example, sometimes we would have physics class or chemistry class, and I never kind of saw the application to that in, you know, the real world. Um, I think that’s like the, one of the main issues that, we experience and also lack of after school clubs, for example, or kind of your passion.
Everyone has to study [00:02:00] the same subjects. So it doesn’t really cater to students’ interests. Definitely there are some drawbacks. That’s exactly like what my future is about that. I want to actually work on educating those drawbacks and you know, minding the gap between other educational systems and Georgia educational system. The one that I’ve experienced.
KRISTINE: I completely agree with Diana because I think that our school system is mostly just about like the soft skills, but it’s not about like, I dunno, developing other motor skills or other things, which is a bit sad because a kid which wants to move a lot, which wants to spend their energy, has just to sit this lots of like seven, eight hours, uh, and put their mind into a few subjects.
And plus you are obliged to study all the subjects at the same level. And it’s impossible because. Everybody has different skills. Everybody has like different mindset. Everybody has different abilities and we should focus on more like developing other skills. And it’s not just about the studying because when you’re at school, person’s character develops a lot of skills develop.
You get the knowledge, [00:03:00] you get the viewpoint, you become like better human, at least you should become. So I think that the school has this huge responsibility not to just be facilitated to give education, but also like some morals and some other things.
DIANA: But I would say there are also like positive aspects to it. I think the ethics and the habits that I’ve developed throughout my high school experience or you know, general schooling experience in Georgia, it’s very demanding. But I think there could be more effective ways to actually incorporate like more flexible and um, student oriented curriculum. For sure.
LEONG: How’s that then compared to where you are now? So you both chose different countries, you know, Hungary and Italy. Um, do you see that the, they treat students differently in those two countries compared to Georgia?
KRISTINE: University of Bologna, I would say that has very good reputation, and this is one of the reasons why I decided to pursue my master’s degree here. But even here, I came across with some of the issues and I still anyway had to address them. So I realized that like, you know, there is no like the [00:04:00] best place and like, because I realized that not a lot of people here speak English at a very high level. This is why I realized that, you know, Georgian schools are pretty much, and universities are doing good developing these skills and well, sometimes it might have been harsh with the schedule, but I mean like in Georgia, I probably have skipped one or two classes. But here I say that a lot of the students don’t attend classes. They have this like non attending student status. So obviously like there is some differences and um, well, I wouldn’t say that Georgia is the worst or like Italy is the worst. I think there are issues everywhere and some little problems occurring everywhere.
LEONG: Yeah, can, can you actually both, uh, explain more about Georgian life? Because there probably are a lot of, uh, listeners who are not familiar with, you know, what Georgia is like as a country, you know, what’s it like growing up and, you know, besides outside of school.
KRISTINE: Lots of people around me don’t even know where it is even located. I’ve heard like different versions of like, Georgia, America. I don’t know. Sometimes people even told me that Georgia might be Russia. Some people [00:05:00] debate whether it’s Europe or Asia. By culture, it feels more like close to the European culture, but by location we are both. So part of it is Asia, part of it is Europe.
LEONG: Yeah.
KRISTINE: It’s really close to Russia. It’s between Russia and Turkey. Romania. We have sea. We have beautiful mountains. If you are interested into skiing, you can find it there. If you’re interested into the sea, we have it there. It’s not that, uh, expensive because like our currency is different than Euro or dollar and uh, those people who are coming usually from Europe, it’s pretty easy to find good times in our country.
DIANA: And also we have our own language and alphabet. Yeah. You know, there are only 14 alphabets and one of them is Georgian. Yeah. Also, we have a very old tradition of wine making. We are credible of wine making and we make wine on the ground. It’s stored there. We have this like really cool shaped. That we store our wine in.
I think Georgian culture and community is very close knit. Like almost everyone has like the best interest for you. Yeah, we have like [00:06:00] such a close relationship with my neighbors, like the place that I live in, like they’re kind of almost like a family. You know, sometimes we eat meals together, like we go on a field trips together.
Like, it’s like such a beautiful part of the culture and I think that’s also demonstrated with the hospitality. ’cause it’s not only, you know, Georgian people, but whenever someone visits. You know, you know that, you know you have to give them the best food possible, like, you know, like feed them so well and you know, they live with like, oh my gosh, I can breathe ’cause I ate so much.
LEONG: I see you nodding a lot that I can see you from your face that a lot of what she says resonates.
KRISTINE: Yeah. Hearing about the food and neighbors from my country, it’s the same in my village. We have like the just very. Thin fence between us and neighbors and like we’ve been so having so close, tight with each other.
Also the relatives, it was very, uh, surprising, uh, for all of my classmates here that all these family members, they were calling me one by one. My cousins, my nephews, my grandmas, grandkids, everybody calling me. And at the end of the day I [00:07:00] was like, okay guys, I’m a bit tired to tell the same text to everybody, so like maybe we should stop it for now.
LEONG: Yeah.
KRISTINE: But one of the amazing experiences is that people care about you that much. And this is my, uh, I would say one of my links to stay connected to my country. And the food. Food is something that like, even though I’m an Italy Italian food is, I would say even with the surveys in the number one in the first place, I still feel the happiest when I’m tasting my own traditional dishes.
And I might even cry sometimes when I’m swallowing it. Because I’m like, okay, this is what I’ve been missing. Actually, it Italy has very interest, is very interesting. Every place like has its own dish. For example, in Bologna where I’m, right now, it’s Bologna say, but if you go to Rome, uh, even with a pasta, it’s Carbonara and Amatriciana or maybe Cacio e Pepe, which is like just cheese and this thing, yeah.
And Mortadella basically, which is like kind of meat, which they love. Our food is also kind of based on this like, uh, [00:08:00] dough and the cheese and wine and meat, so it was pretty easy to alter.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yeah. Is that the same in Hungary, Diana?
DIANA: Actually, no, I, I wouldn’t say Hungarian cuisine is. So much different than Georgian one.
Um, I mean there are some similarities, like Hungarians are really obsessed with like paprika, like pepper. Um, they have like in everything. I mean, Georgians also have it in Western parts, but I think it’s way different the way it tastes. ’cause I was kind of expecting to taste something similar, but not really.
And I, I wouldn’t say that we have like a very huge culture of using lots of vegetables. Maybe in our dish, like as Christie mentioned, it’s like usually cheese dough, nuts, kind of like dominating, uh, flavors.
LEONG: Yeah. Okay. Did you choose to go to Hungary or was it a family, move ?.
DIANA: Actually, it was kind of spontaneous how I moved here. I was gonna go somewhere else. I was gonna pursue, um, my studies at American University, but then within three weeks I was like. You know, I think I should, I should go there [00:09:00] instead. And yeah, I changed like, kind of like my whole decision and I moved here because people usually ask me because Budapest and you know, for example, the US like so different, they’re completely different and they, they usually ask me like, do you think that you made right decision because US educational system maybe might be forward or maybe the university that I was gonna go might be like.
But I always say that yes, I think this was like absolutely right decision because I’ve never kind of experienced living, like in Eastern Europe, you know, different country than Georgia. So I wanted to kind of see what it would like and then I think of opportunities that came up with living here. I would, I think I wouldn’t have gotten those opportunities if I moved somewhere else.
So. Was the right decision for sure.
LEONG: Kristine, it sounds like you’ve done a lot of thought that’s the way to go. How did you end up with Italy?
KRISTINE: Actually, Italy was not my first option and first country. It also like came all the deadline was already like running out. And I, at the last moment decided to apply.
I have lots of people around me who’ve been [00:10:00] like, oh yeah, one year ago I started to get ready, get all the documentations, but I really did it like just two weeks before one of my friends advised me that, you know, like Italy has pretty late lines with applying at the university, so maybe you would like to try out.
So I really tried it and now that it just happened, so, but I for sure don’t regret it. Because it’s one of the best experiences and obviously like Italy is a very beautiful country and it’s in Europe, like Western Europe, so you have like close ties with all this, France, Belgium, Spain, all these countries together.
So it’s like coming from Georgia from where like kinda getting out of the circle is a bit hard, even like in terms of just traveling. This place seems like perfect location.
LEONG: Mm-hmm. So student life, you know, what is, what do students do there and what do you do there as students? Uh, the culture, your activities.
KRISTINE: Bologna is like international student city. This is what attracted me about Bologna the most. That you will see that all the young people, and especially you also this like student polls, especially when you are like on the [00:11:00] Friday or Saturday night out and everybody’s sitting outside. First of all, it’s the culture that they love talking a lot. They love sitting outside just sipping the wine and talking. That’s the main, like attraction that you will see in Italy, in the street at every corner. And this is what I absolutely loved and adored. And even when it was like hella cold, when it was like five degrees, they be still enthusiastically sitting outside there sharing their own stories.
So this is what I found the most exciting, and I would say that it’s a bit more. Expensive than I anticipated, but I see that since the demand went high, they also decided to raise the prices of the apartment. And, but as for the food, um, it’s pretty nice prices. I would say it’s cheap, uh, compared to other cities.
Plus you might have some other scholarships will, which will cover like this food, the facilities, accommodations, some sport activities maybe. So it’s a really great place as a student to come in.
DIANA: Yeah, I would say I also have like similar [00:12:00] experience. Um, Hungarians are really like big on going outs and you know, like you can see on Saturday and Sunday, like it’s like streets are just like, you never sleep, just like New York City. It’s just you go out and people are just out there, you know, like party and having fun. I wouldn’t say that they’re very talkative at first, but you know, like as soon as the little bit alcohol is well definitely like it super chatty, like talk a lot. Um, super open and I would say it’s like very affordable, also like super affordable to live here.
And there are like a lot of services that are, you know, catered to students. For example, like they have this new city pass. I’m actually like a country pass with only three euros. Like you can just travel to any city in Hungary, like for a month. I think that’s amazing. They kind of give you opportunities to just kind of like, um, you know, explore and then.
Also I didn’t know, but biking culture is like huge. So like a lot of people use bikes. Like I don’t use public transportation as much. I always go with a bike. And also like running, a lot of people run [00:13:00] here, which I love because I also love to run. So like they’re more sporty as well. And I think that’s really, really good to see.
LEONG: So how does this compare to Georgia? The, what do Georgian students do, you know, at university and at high school?
DIANA: Would say. University like here is definitely more laid back than what I’ve experienced. Like I think Georgia is very intense, like very competitive, and that’s what I’ve been used to like my whole life. You know, like you have to, you know, be on top. You have to, of course. I mean, still like that’s what I’m striving for, to be, you know, like to do my best. But I think here it’s definitely healthier. You know, the competition is not as fierce as in Georgia. People are like more calm and tranquil and you know, more laid back, like outside of academics.
They prioritise having fun, which I think I kind of learned it here to be honest, because back in Georgia, like, you know, we’re always working on projects, always doing something, always on run. It never occurred as that, you know, sometimes you can just. Like sit down and just enjoy like nice weather, focus on present moment.
LEONG: Yeah.
DIANA: Which actually was pretty challenging for me because like at times, I have to admit like I was like maybe like [00:14:00] guilty of like, you know, having fun because I’m like, now you should be doing something else. Now you should be working on that. But actually like great things to just sometimes just pause a little bit.
LEONG: Yeah. So in in Georgia social life for students, um, what’s that like? It sounds quite different to what you’re experiencing now.
DIANA: Yeah, definitely. I would say it’s completely different. And I think also like really depends on like what type of group, like friendship dynamics you have. I think it’s easier for me to kind of see like, and meet people with different interests here than back in Georgia because in Georgia you kind of have to get into the circle, like kind of like have to earn the entry into you know, this friendship group or you know, people, but here it’s just, I think it’s so much more easier and less rigid for sure to just meet people.
KRISTINE: You are actually totally right. You nailed it when you said that you like, it depends on the group dynamic that you have. It was always like, people who are thriving for like career very are intense about their studies, about their goals and like when you have free time, like instead of going out, you were just planning what’s your next step gonna be or what [00:15:00] your next project gonna be that you’re gonna take. And I also really didn’t have that much of the time to breathe, but Italian culture is so chill, literally chill and relaxing. Even when I was looking for an apartment and I was calling everybody a bit of like already stressed that I couldn’t find out. Everybody was telling me tranquillo on the phone, which was telling me like to calm down and it was so not familiar with me to calm down. And this is when I realized that when you come here you just have to relax and let it all go. And even though there might be like studies, it’s not that they are not studying, but they have really good sense of, of free time and really like are feeling all the moments.
LEONG: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Now, for, for both of your plans, it, how long are you planning to stay abroad? You, because it sounds like some, like Diana, you, you plan to do things back home to, uh, to big changes.
DIANA: Yeah, definitely. I know that I really wanna work on educational policies, um, back home. So I really like, that’s like one of my biggest goals. Um, and you know, I, every time I travel [00:16:00] to a new country, even like. The first thing that I want to see maybe sounds really odd, but like a school, like I, I wanna see like what kind of schooling experience they have. Um, so yeah, definitely like planning to bring that back in Georgia. Um, I think maybe I would need like maybe more expertise before I kind of like fully, uh, emerge myself into doing that.
So maybe I would like to pursue master’s in, um, instructional design or kind of continue with the, you know, organisation that, um, I’ve been working with because I think I’ve kind of accumulated a lot of knowledge and a lot of great practices. But that’s like the future that I see myself. I definitely see myself in education because, you know, a lot of our educational ministers, they resign one after another because the challenges are so tough that they cannot really, you know, keep up.
So I think we definitely need more stability and more people who, who care about this and who kind of bring back this knowledge that they’ve accumulated back home. I think that’s, this is the whole point of me being here or me being anywhere else, kind of bringing that back.
LEONG: Yep. That’s a very noble aim, I think, uh, education [00:17:00] system around the world actually requires people energy like what you have. So, Kristine, what, what about you?
KRISTINE: Oh, I think that my plans might be a bit egoistical and not altruistic as Diana’s plan. Because my whole life I had like this dream to work in the international environment where I would be able to work with great people. It might be a bit cliche, but I really wanted to be with among BBC guys, CNN guys.
And like I will try to have like my small part there and I will try my best really because my whole life I’ve been trying to build up there. This is why I think that I might stay here. I really want to pursue lots of internships and gain more experience and I cannot talk, uh, about coming back to Georgia because I dunno what will happen after I satisfied this my small desire that I’ve been having from the childhood.
LEONG: Mm. Yeah. Well, I think you can contribute your country in many different ways. Um, I think you, uh, have a very full career in front of you. So, yeah. So now things that you’ve learned, um, what is the hardest thing that you found, [00:18:00] uh, in your whole education life? In all the different countries?
DIANA: At times it really feels like very, very lonely. I mean, yeah, you have, you know, family back home who are trying to support you, but it’s so much different when you have people in front of you, like, you know, like Uh, in person communication. Um, so I think like the main thing is there like, like, don’t put too much pressure on yourself, because I think that’s what I’ve been doing. I was like, oh, everything has to go smoothly. Everything has to go this way. Being okay, which I know it sounds like, like really easy to say. Yeah. But being okay with like unexpected surprises that might turn into something great. You know, because you, you never know. I think that’s the thing. And also like you might have some expectations before you arrive somewhere and then.
It is completely different. Yeah. But then imagine that just the fact that you had the willpower and you know, strength to move somewhere. Yeah. Like start from zero, that makes you already like someone that’s very strong and very resilient and you know, like just kind of have faith and also like saying yes.
I think that is the most important thing, saying yes to, you know, like meeting new people or doing things [00:19:00] that you’ve never done. I think that’s, that’s, that’s the thing.
LEONG: And Kristine?
KRISTINE: I think you have to know, uh, in Europe whether you are going the language, because language is what makes you feel that you belong to some place.
Because if you don’t understand what the people are talking about, what they’re passionate about, what they are protesting about, it’s very hard for you to find your own group and belong somewhere. So I would say that I would have studied Italian way more. So it would have been way easier to communicate with people.
LEONG: Well, we find this consistently, uh, international students saying, talking about language, is that the same for you, Diana?
DIANA: Yeah, definitely because there have been times when I had absolutely no idea what was going on. I would say yeah, of course. Like I go to international university, so it’s easier definitely to understand, but. Yeah. Like, I don’t know, even for me, like I think generally I connect to people on deeper level when they speak my language. I think that’s the same for me. You know? ’cause it kind of hits differently. Yeah. But I also think that that shouldn’t be, of course, like, it’s great to be prepared, but that shouldn’t be discouraging to still go and pursue because [00:20:00] you’ll, you’ll find your way. You’ll find your people for sure.
LEONG: Okay. Alright. Um, so just to wrap up, both have offered really good advice throughout the conversation today. Any last piece of advice you’d like to offer somebody who potentially might walk your path?
KRISTINE: Well, I would say you should allow yourself to have some room and some fresh air. Yeah. And just free up your mind because, uh, I’ve, sometimes I’ve had, uh, this feeling at the end of the day that my mind has been burned out because I was thinking about too many things concurrently, and I’m the one who loves planning and I’m thinking about the future. I’m thinking about the situations that might not occur because this is one of my things that I’m thinking about A, B, C, D. And then I didn’t have any room to just clean up my mind and to be by myself, just not do anything.
DIANA: Yeah, definitely. Like I think, you know, you have to be extra kind to yourself. For sure. You are just put under so much stress, so many changes, so many new people and just, you know, kind of like, yeah, like just being supportive. And I know a lot of people also care about their, you know, relationships back home and how it’s gonna be affected. But I would just say [00:21:00] like, I think true connections with some effort, always stay there. So don’t worry about that too much. Just focus on where you are now. And why you are here, because you know, I’m sure you have to go through so many, you know, challenges and obstacles to make it there and just try to make full of that because you earned it. So, yeah. Yeah, just enjoy your time wherever you are.
LEONG: Okay? Well, I wanna thank both of you if offer some really good advice, but also really useful information that’s relevant for students around the world. I wanna wish both of you, good luck. I think both of you have really bright futures ahead of you. I look forward to seeing where, where you go.
Thank you for joining in the podcast today.
KRISTINE: Thank you Leong for hosting us.
DIANA: Thank you.
LEONG: It’s captivating to learn about a country that many of us might not be very familiar with, especially through the eyes of two young women who are not only thoughtful about their education, but also actively engaged in chasing their dreams.
There’s a valuable lesson in their dedication for all of [00:22:00] us. Thanks again for listening to this week’s episode. If you would like to take part in this podcast, please see the show notes and get in touch. And if you enjoy this, please leave us a review and tell your friends. Don’t forget to follow the show.
Catch you in the next episode.
S1 E5 – TIFF, BEL, MAY ANN, RYAN – transcript
Ryan: [00:00:00] My parents, they would not put any pressure on me. They wouldn’t say, oh, you got to get the A star, the A and all that. Yeah. They wouldn’t do any of that. But I would, I would also notice when I do fall short, they would treat me a bit differently.
Bel: Oh.
Ryan: Or they say, oh, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. You try your best, and then the car ride is like completely silent and very, very cold.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives. From their families and peers to their studies and dreams. In this episode, we go from Singapore to Malaysia to Australia and talk with four young people from my own extended family, some still in school and others now graduated.
In this conversation, we talk about applying to universities about gap years earning money, and how supportive family is during this [00:01:00] important time. We hear from Ryan in Malaysia. Who’s 17 and currently doing A Levels. He hopes to study in the US next year. We also hear from May Ann, who’s 24, who majored in economics and Psychology in Singapore and sisters, Tiffany and Bell, who went to school in Malaysia, but to university in Perth, Australia.
Bell studied architecture and Tiffany took commerce. We started the conversation talking about a gap year, and if it’s worth it, we first hear from Bell.
Bel: After I graduated from my bachelor’s part of my course, I knew I was sort of missing the technical or practical aspect. I. And so I wanted to dedicate like a year or two years out to sort of seek like, um, work experience.
I tried applying to almost maybe 20 to 30 companies, but no one was hiring at all. And then I somehow [00:02:00] stumbled upon an opportunity with Zara. They had, um, a design department in Zara. And so my train of thought back then is if I could enter Zara through the retail side and sort of work my way up, that could be like a exciting route to get there.
But then once you get into retail, you’re stuck in retail. Uh, but thankfully I got a, I got a role on the stock department side, so I worked as a stock assistant manager for about a year, and I absolutely loved it, like 101%. Loved it. It was the best decision during that time. So
Leong: you glad you did it. It sounds like you’re glad you did it.
Bel: Yeah, I enjoyed it. So it was a good break just to have a mental refresh. From Uni Life. Yeah.
Leong: Okay. May Ann?,
May Ann: after our first semester, usually we will have a three month summer break. Yeah. So during this three month summer break, most people will start applying for internships and everything. So at that point, at year three, I think I [00:03:00] didn’t have much internship experience, so I was quite desperate to.
Just get some sort of outside experience so that I know what it is like to work outside, what I like, what I, what I do well, in no idea what the role was about. Just when went on to the interview, it went very well. So I was supposed to help, um, manage like some philanthropic foundation of, uh, the founders of Pandora, basically.
So they set up a, a trust source managing the charitable giving. Like, who do I wanna give grants to? And everything. So I was like, wow, this is super interesting. I, I loved it when I was talking to the supervisor, the interviewer, I really like clicked with her. So everything was going well. So I was like, okay, she’s gonna offer me this place for summer.
So in the end, I didn’t get the summer place, but she said she wanted to work for a bit longer with me. So instead of offering three months, she wanted to work for six months with me starting the next semester. Then she asked if I was okay to take a gap from my school, delay my graduation by a bit. Do this six months with her instead.
Yeah. So I said yes. Yeah, [00:04:00] that’s, so I did, and like what I said, I, I don’t regret it. I enjoyed it a lot.
Leong: Okay. That’s good.
Tiffany: My opinion on Gap is, are slightly different to maybe the ones that experienced it, I think. Gap years are very subjective just because it depends on what you are studying or the requirements of your course.
I think for myself, I am not a big fan of gap years, um, just because I feel like they waste time. I find time is so precious for me. I did a couple study tours here and there. That’s one bit I don’t regret because I enjoyed going overseas and studying. At a different country, learning the culture. So, but I cannot push up to six months.
I think that myself gives me so much anxiety that I’m pushing myself six months to, or even a year to not be studying. Um, but that’s just say, that’s just personal preference. Okay. Very different. [00:05:00] But when I was studying, I knew my course, my Bachelor of Commerce was three years and I’m like, I wanna finish it in three years.
So, um, like May Ann, you did your internship as a gap year? For myself. I did my internship when I was still studying just because I thought that benefit me in a way where I learn whilst I’m. Also working, maybe specifically my faculty under business and law, they encourage students to undertake business internships whilst they’re studying.
May Ann: Now that you are mentioning about like getting what experience, I don’t know whether it’s the same like maybe in Perth or in Malaysia, but in Singapore. A lot of undergrads graduate uni with a lot of internships already. So there are people who are doing part-time internships during the summer break.
They’re doing internships, doing winter break, they’re taking internships, doing get year, the internship so people can graduate from uni, having at least five internships experience.
Bel: Wow. Yeah. Wow. So you just made me sweat.[00:06:00]
May Ann: Where is that same pressure? Because I know that there are people who first year uni right, are already doing internships while they are still in their first semester. They always say that in Singapore they only look at your internships. They don’t even look at your degree anymore ’cause they assume everybody has it. They just look at your internships and your experience. So I don’t know whether there’s that same, I guess, pressure or in the other universities in the other countries.
When Singapore, so far it’s like that.
Leong: Okay let’s start with Perth first.
Tiffany: I don’t recall having that level of pressure, um, when I was studying or when you are applying for jobs after you graduate. I think the expectations to gain or gain an internship experience is valuable because it helps you find a job, but it doesn’t mean that you need to do up to like five.
Internships. I think as long as you do one that’s kind of acceptable enough. But yeah, five seems quite a lot. I don’t, I don’t think we have that level of pressure here
Bel: That’s highly, highly competitive, May Ann, that sounds, that’s like [00:07:00] a, it sounds like a culture shock to me. Yeah. I, I just, I just don’t wanna like bounce the, bounce the question back to you though.
Is that sort of pressure and competition applies to everyone in university or is that kind of only applicable to certain degrees?
May Ann: I think more so for business. I was in the faculty of arts and social science. We are kind of known for, uh, being the least employable.
So I think because there is that view in, in our school, in our faculty, then people are like, okay, then I have to back it up with some sort of like Right. Real life work experience. Yes. But I know business is competitive, but has somebody with healthcare, like the clinicals and the attachments are all already part of the um, curriculum?
Yeah.
Bel: Would architecture fall under arts?
May Ann: No, it is a separate.
Bel: It’d be, it’d be separate completely,
May Ann: but I’m not so sure. I don’t, I’m not sure how to do the internships. Yeah. My only impression of [00:08:00] architecture students in my school, at least, they’re sleeping over the studios. Yeah,
Bel: That’s an international culture! But architecture generally, the course is highly. demanding, like it’s intensive from day one until the very end. Like it, it takes up all of your mental and physical energy. I think it depends on the person’s Kayassoness, at the end of the day, like, like how much they wanna go out and search up for internships. But it’s not something that, I guess when you graduate, like they will see your internship. Experience.
Leong: Look. Can I ask, uh, then for Ryan, in your high school, uh, and in your A levels, do you think about work? Do you have the urge to go out and actually work and, and you know, do all these things like internships?
Ryan: Let’s be honest. The education system sucks. I don’t really like it. I do look forward to [00:09:00] going out to work, but at the same time, my parents always tell me like, oh, you miss school.
When you start working, you’re so much more stressful. But honestly, I don’t believe them. I think I’ve the hard work required to go out and start working.
Leong: What about the earning salary bit as a student and then you start getting money?
Ryan: I just want to go out there, earn the most money. As much money as possible.
Like in fact, my current major of choice in university is specifically geared towards what makes the most money in the future. I. Like, I really do not know exactly what I’m passionate about, but it’s something I can deal with and something that earns me the most money in the future.
Leong: So what, what are those? Is it finance or?
Ryan: It’s artificial intelligence and business com combined together. So, ah, yeah, it’s a mix of both.
Leong: You’re going to be a tech entrepreneur.
Bel: Yeah. We’re going to see AI Ryan in the next podcast. I know he’ll be a robot. Yeah.
Leong: Okay. So, uh, everyone else, um, do you remember the time when you start [00:10:00] earning money?
During your, your studies, you know, what was that like?
Tiffany: Oh, amazing. It’s like the best feeling ever. It’s like when you get your first piece slip, it’s like. Oh my God, it’s actually my money. I’m sure everyone felt like that and the fact that you know that you, it’s your money and you can spend it on whatever you like.
I think that’s the first feeling I had, and I think it’s also attached to the fact that your first play slip allows you with your first like bank card. I think that was pretty special.
Bel: Oh yeah. Getting your bank card..
May Ann: Yeah.
Leong: Everyone else. Um May ann?,,
May Ann: I think for me, actually I was very tired. So I, I was giving tuition while I was in my first year of uni.
At one point I had to stop ’cause I was so stressed out. I think one was because the adjustment to uni was difficult already. It was like the pace and the intensity of the work was like it jumped by a lot. Then also, uh. The pressure from the parents was quite intense. So I was teaching a, a pair of siblings.
So one primary school was secondary school, [00:11:00] like closer to their examinations, I’ll be at their house like four times a week.
Leong: Yeah.
May Ann: For tuition. So it’s like to go down on top of my, uh, school and everything. So as much as I was glad I was earning some money, but other, so I don, I burn. I can, I was way too tired
Bel: Actually, . That’s a very interesting question Uncle Leong.. Like quite surprised and also kind of jealous with like Tiffany’s, I guess, experience with getting her first payload. Like for me it was just very different for me. It was like when I saw my bracelet, I was like, oh my God. After like six and a half years I’m finally working.
Like that was it’s, I can finally apply what I like learned from uni and just be out in the real world. So it was, I think it was like that sense of relief. It’s like, I’m here, I’m actually applying now. Okay. But, but I also like the fact that you get your own bank card.
Leong: Yeah. Well, let, let’s move then to family.
So what’s the [00:12:00] influence of parents on your schooling and then for those who done uni, uh, the uni, because a lot of times there is pressure, so let’s deal with that. .
Tiffany: I think indirectly, all of us are subjected to pressure, and I think in a way it’s because all of us, I’m, I’m sure, wanna impress our parents family in general.
I don’t think I ever experience a. Direct pressure that you know, you must get straight A’s, or you must, you know, be in the top class, et cetera, et cetera. Because I personally don’t think I had that intelligence myself when I was in primary. I don’t remember doing so well. I think I’m quite a slow learner in that sense, so I don’t know if I actually had pressure or not, but indirectly myself also, I’m not doing well.
So I [00:13:00] think I put the pressure on myself. To, you know, make my parents happy in that sense. But I think when we, when I go into uni, I never got that pressure where, you know, you have to do, you have to be a doctor, you have to be a lawyer, you have to, you know, never had that pressure. And I kind of went outside of the.
Technical field and did something very different. And I think I received a lot of support from our mom and dad. They never said otherwise and they were happy for us to go outside the norm, and I think that was good in a sense.
Leong: Bell, you did you have similar experience?
Bel: Similar in a way away? So mom, mom and dad were actually very supportive from the. start, I mean, everyone knows our mom and dad is an architect, right? Um, and they used to have their own business in kale. I mean, when I was younger, I didn’t, I didn’t quite see it. But then as I was doing my studies and I realized how thankful and grateful I am of my [00:14:00] parents that they, I. Never, um, set a path for me in a sense that it wasn’t in their plan for me to take over the business.
So there was no succession plan and, and actually it was the opposite that. Before I, before I enrolled to architecture, they actually asked me if I was sure, like more maybe on the discouraging side, like, are you sure Bell? So they literally, every time would ask me before I started uni, after I graduated bachelor’s.
And then when I wanted to take on my master’s, they asked me again. It’s like, are you sure about? Like, you don’t have to. So I guess so they were supportive in, in that. So just making sure that I’m okay in what I do and ’cause they, they know my, my nature is that I put on the pressure on myself to always be the best version of me and just the nature of how I work.
Like if [00:15:00] I go into something, I’ll dig deep. 101 percent.
Leong: Mm. Okay. So Ryan, what’s it like in your family?
Ryan: Um, as the first born son of my family, I feel a lot of pressure to perform and be the flag bearer for this family. And a lot of the times. I put a lot of pressure on myself to do well in like tests and other things like that, and I wouldn’t say I’m a smart kid.
I can only achieve because I can work hard and I’m very, very grateful that I have this ability. My parents, they would not put any pressure on me. They wouldn’t say, oh, you got to get the A star, the A and all that. Yeah, they wouldn’t do any of that. But I would also notice when I do fall short, they would treat me a bit differently.
Bel: Oh.
Ryan: Or they say, oh, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. You try your best. And then the car ride is like completely [00:16:00] silent and very, very cold.
So I’m like, so a bit similar to most of your experience, but at the same time, a bit more like external pressure, you know? So in order to be treated well, 24 7, I.
You no need to perform, but like I would say 90% of the time it’s my own, um, initiative to perform well for the family. So
Leong: yeah.
Bel: It’s okay. At least now you have your own car.
Leong: Yeah. So now before we end, I do want to actually give Ryan a special time because I’m really interested in your uni application, you know, what that experience is like, uh, and what you’re finding out.
And I liked. Everybody else who have gone through uni, you know whether there’s actually some advice you can give. So Ryan, what has it been like? The, you know, these early stages of writing applications and, and applying to uni?
Ryan: So I plan to study in the [00:17:00] US so I’m obviously going under the US application process.
It’s a very, very tedious process compared to my UK peers. ’cause all they have to do is submit me a personal statement. That’s pretty much it. But for me, I not only have to write my own personal statement, I have to fill in all the activities I’ve done since I started high school. And I also have to type a lot of essays, and these essays are different across every other uni.
Um, the essays really ask you about like your personal life, your belief systems, your values, and what are your academic interests and all that. So if you just ask me like, oh, what do you plan to pursue in the future? I can’t give you an. An entire presidential speech on what I wanna do as a career. Like it takes days to write a single like essay.
But a benefit I would get out of this is the fact that you discover more about yourself. So prior to [00:18:00] writing these essays, I didn’t really know a lot about what I want to do, what do I believe in? But after I’ve written those, I’m more confident in. My own values, my belief system, and I, and if people do ask me upfront, I can give them a better answer compared to if I haven’t done the essays at all.
Leong: Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks Ryan. What, what do, what was the experience for the rest of you with, uh, with your uni applications? Is it as intense as what Ryan ex, uh, described?
Tiffany: I don’t think so. Um, like Ryan, you said you had to write a letter of personal statement. I don’t recall doing that. Uh. Only requirement for entry into uni in Australia is, I think, is looking at your atar, which is your score.
Mm-hmm. Um, depending on what you wanna study. And I think also the maths that you are studying. So there’s a level of mathematics that you need to study [00:19:00] at high school. To then study that specific course at uni. So, um, yeah, I don’t remember doing essays or writing letters. Um, but I guess it depends on the university as well.
Some universities maybe require that and maybe some. Degrees also require that, but not for the degree that I applied for.
Leong: What’s it like in Singapore?
May Ann: Well, singapore I, mine was relatively easy because I went through the Singapore system for an international student to apply for Singapore Uni. You do have to submit like your, like more personal statements, letter recommendations from your teachers and things like that.
I think I had to write some a thousand words, so it wasn’t very long. It was quite okay. There are some universities. You have to do an interview, but for money, it wasn’t very, very rigorous. But it really depends on your degree, I guess, or so if you’re doing medicine, if you’re doing law, it’s a lot more intense.
Yeah.
Bel: I mean, o obviously your application process is very unique, clearly very unique to, [00:20:00] to, um, the audience here. You mentioned earlier that it has helped you in identifying your values and your beliefs. If you are comfortable sharing, like, I actually just wanna know what values or belief you have learned, like during your process or like what was your biggest change in your mindset before the application process?
And now
Ryan: in terms of my values and belief, uh, a common theme in what I wrote in my essays was the fact that. I want to help people. I want to bless people around me, and I would reference things like my service in church. It’s a common storyline I would use. I’ll also use examples like volunteering at to help orphanages, fundraising for certain communities and things like that.
So I do believe, like maybe when I grow older and I go out into the world, I want to be someone who can. [00:21:00] Make a difference in the world. I want to be someone who can bring change to the classic system that is degrading right now. So yeah, I guess that if you’re asking in terms of overall perspective, the values pretty much just to make a difference.
Bel: Hmm. That’s really good. I think that’s really interesting because I don’t remember being at the age of 18 and being confronted with the question of, or thinking about your values. And your principles like at 18, I remember the trajectory is actually, what do you want to study? That was the key question.
Instead of understanding who I am as a person or who I strive to be. I progress as a young adult.
Leong: Yeah, that’s very good comment bell. I think that’s actually really important for anybody that’s going, you know, moving a transition between high school and and university to have some reflection. You might not know exactly where you want to go, but [00:22:00] have some reflection as to what I.
You know, your character is and how, uh, how the education system actually builds on it. But I think through the conversations today, we’ve already seen the type of changes that education can, can bring to all of us. So I want to thank all of you for taking part in this. I had a lot of fun.
Bel: Thank you Uncle Leong. Thank you.
Thank you
Ryan: so much. Yeah.
Leong: Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. We’re all about helping you navigate this wild ride called Student Life. So if you had a blast and found it useful, please leave us a review and tell your friends. Don’t forget to follow the show. Catch you in the next episode.
SLU S1 E6 IVY AND HARRISON – UK transcript
Ivy: [00:00:00] I’m in music all the time. I’m always in the music boc in a practice room. And my friends always ask like, oh, why are you in music all the time? I’m like, ’cause it’s what I want to do.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from their families and peers to their studies and dreams. In this episode, I speak to Ivy and Harrison, both six formers in the uk. Sixth form is a two year course where students study A levels after their formal education.
It allows a certain freedom where students pick specific subjects and they have choices to do independent study also. Ivy is in the first year and Harrison is in the second. After this final year, Harrison wants to study business in university. Ivy is yet undecided what route she will take, but she knows she wants to study music.
In the conversation, we [00:01:00] ask if university is always the best option and what the ultimate future would be. I begin by talking about Sixth Form.
Harrison: When I first went to sixth form, because it was so relaxed and there was no, no one sort of telling you what to do, I found that I was actually, for the first few weeks I was quite lazy and I didn’t do a lot.
And then all of a sudden it hit me and I realised I needed to actually study. And you know, you have to do it yourself and there aren’t people pushing you to do it, which in a way, in my view is harder.
Ivy: It’s hard, it’s difficult, but I think after a while you get used to it and the teachers are always there to like sort of either edge you on or like, maybe say stop like you’re working like too fast, like you need a break. So I think it’s just like relaxing into it and just like going with the flow. They always talk about how it’s a big jump from GCSE to a level and it is, but especially in my school, they do take it slow, but there is a significant like knowledge jump, but there’s always the [00:02:00] support in school.
Leong: Mm-hmm. What kind of support?
Ivy: We have a pastoral team, which is great. They’re brilliant. And their door’s always open. And as well as just like teachers in general, like, ’cause the classes are significantly smaller. They can tell if something’s off. So they’ll either like pull you aside at the end and just be like, is everything okay? So it’s just like all round support in the school really.
Leong: What about in general in studies, um, how do you find your school life and uh, having to adjust around things that’s required for studies?
Harrison: The first few weeks I think you find you’ll have a lot of free periods. Everyone was seeing all the free periods and they think, oh yeah, no, I can just relax. I can just take it easy. But then you find that actually there’s free periods are there so that you can do extra revision and extra studying and you need to use them. So,
Leong: I see you’re nodding your head tivy?
Ivy: Yeah, I do four A levels, so I have less. But there’s like one day in my two week timetable where I have like one lesson and it is just a relief just having [00:03:00] one lesson and then freeze for the rest of the time, but you know, at this point I’m like, maybe I should actually be getting work done in them. Like I shouldn’t just be like sat on my phone. But
Leong: I just noticed how different this is to, uh, so I had my education in Asia and then I went to Australia to do my university. And that jump actually happened at university. There was no free time right up to the last year, uh, before you enter uni and then suddenly it was just complete freedom. So it is actually good you get to have this transition for a few years before you get to university where you get even more freedom. Is that what you’re expecting a lot more freedom when you get to Uni?
Ivy: I hope so. Um, I think a lot of my, like older cousins are at uni at the moment. I don’t know if they go to lectures or anything. They seem to just be out all the time. So it’s. If I do go, I’m quite excited because it is like a social event at the same time, but you’re also doing what you want. So I think having that free time [00:04:00] now sort of will carry over to make sure that you do actually do work at uni and you’re not out all the time.
Leong: How, how do you finding that balance between, you know, your social life and um, and the need for studies?
Ivy: The first few weeks, I think new people come in. And like everyone sort of has like some new friends and stuff and you’re all sort of just like getting to know each other almost again because like you finished your GCSEs, you have, you probably haven’t seen them for a while and you’re seeing ’em again.
You’ll spend the next two years with them. So it is at the start just getting to know people and you do go out and stuff, but because of the freeze in school, it’s good because. Get your homework done, then get your like consolidation done then, then go out on the weekends. And I think people have started to realise that instead of like cramming the night before.
’cause I remember at the start, I think a lot of people were just like, [00:05:00] they weren’t ready for the summer to be finished, so they were going out quite a lot. And then they start to realise, oh, I, I have work to do. Like I probably shouldn’t be out now. So. They’re slowly starting to realise.
Harrison: I mean, for, for me it’s okay because I’ve gotten used to it. I mean, there again, during, when I first started, of course there are a lot of new people and you know, you want to spend time with them. But then after a while, you know, you realise, you know when people are asking you to go and hang out, sometimes you have to say no, and you actually have to. You know, do some work.
But now for me it’s fine. And I’ve got a routine that I follow and, you know, I’m, I, I do spend time with my friends, but I do make time to study also, and studying is my, like, number one priority. So.
Leong: So you are all working in isolation, so there isn’t study groups or?
Harrison: Not really. Sometimes if I just see my mates and, you know, we sit together in like a library. But we don’t really structure it. If we just happen to see each other, then we, [00:06:00] we sit together or something. The other day we, um, I had some coursework I have to do at the moment for history and, you know, um, I prob I probably wasn’t very motivated to do it. And then my friend, you know, he had some coursework he had to do for some of his work, so he just sat down together and then he did his coursework and I did mine, I think because somebody else was actually working as well.
Then it sort of motivated me to, to work too.
Ivy: Yeah, we have a group study at school. So quite a few people go there and there’s a lot of talking there, but then there’s, we have a silent study as well, which is silent most of the time. I wouldn’t say all the time, but most of the time it is silent.
Harrison: And a group is nice sometimes, but then sometimes I do talk too much.
So, um, on my own is better
Ivy: if I’m in group study and I’m with my friends and they talk a lot. I’m not gonna lie. They, they talk too much. Sometimes I will just like take my stuff and go to silent study because I’m like, I need to get on with like this.
Leong: So it sounds very much like, [00:07:00] um, a lot of your friends groups aren’t structured around studies. Is, uh, the perception of each other, um, uh, in terms of your studies, you know, whether you get good marks, whether you achieve, whether you go to university, is that a big thing in your social circle?
Harrison: Um, for me, not, not really. We don’t really talk about it, but if. If someone’s done well, like your friends will congratulate you, but they don’t really, you know, if, if you, maybe if you’re not doing so well, they don’t, they don’t really say anything. They’re pretty relaxed. So
Ivy: yeah, it’s the same for me. I think earlier on in school, like year eight or so, it was quite a lot of competition, but now that we’re all doing different subjects, obviously, like people don’t really understand what’s like a good and bad mark. So if you get a good mark, they normally just say, oh, well done, but.
You know, they’re just supportive really. They’re not gonna like point you out and be like, oh, you did really bad on that test when they don’t do that subject. So I think it’s sort of just over the years, there’s [00:08:00] not as much competition anymore
Leong: Then what is important within your friends group? Um, you know, what do you do? How, how do you see each other?
Ivy: We, um, oh, that’s hard. We all do. In my group, we all do like drama. I think that’s the only mutual subject we do. But like there’s like one person who does like history and politics and we’re like, oh, okay. That person like wants to go into like law or something. And then there’s me who like only does art subjects.
I’m like, oh, she’s gonna go and do something artsy. We all have sort of subjects that we relate to, if that makes sense. Like, like I know my friend loves history, so I would never relate to her on that sort of like. Platform, but there’s always gonna be something that we can relate on, which is drama.
Leong: Mm-hmm.
Harrison: Actually, most of my friends aren’t [00:09:00] even in my classes. I mean, my closest friends, I’ve known them from secondary school and they’ve just come across, so I just spend time with them and, you know, we have the same interests and you know, we talk about similar things. So naturally we just stayed friends.
Leong: Uh, what about your, uh, family life do, uh, with parents? Uh, how do, do you feel pressure from parents?
Ivy: I don’t think so. They, they want me to do well, but they, they’re pretty chill. Like they’re not, they’re not gonna kill me if I get something wrong.
Leong: Right.
Ivy: They like, they’ve been there before. They’re not perfect. So, yeah, they get it. I’ve always loved like the arts, so I’ve never really thought about doing anything else and like my parents know that. So they’ve also like helped me try and find unis, which specialize in that, especially like music and performance. And they seem to be doing a good job so far. So
Leong: In what sense? They’d love to hear this!
Ivy: Well. Um, they don’t try and steer me off to another way. Like they know that [00:10:00] that’s what I wanna do. They’re not gonna try and not make me do it. So they’re sort of molding around me and what, and they’re just trying to help me find places to go.
Harrison: Yeah, they give advice, but they don’t really, um. They’re quite relaxed. They’re quite relaxed, and they’re sort of, you know, leave it to me and then if I have questions, ask them and what, you know, what they think
Leong: Is spending time with family. Are they a big part of your social circle?
Ivy: Yeah, I, I think so. I think my dad works quite late sometimes, my mom works in the morning, so having that time, maybe on weekends where I’m like just with them is important to just like, catch up on the week, maybe plan for the week ahead, maybe like watch a film.
Like that is important for me.
Harrison: I, I mean, usually it’s the weekends, like usually Sunday. Um, I don’t do anything on Sunday and I just spend the time with my family. So usually go on a walk or something.
Leong: So then in the future, as you think, um, going to uni, you know, you’re going to have to reestablish a social circle [00:11:00] again. Do you feel. Stress because of it. Are you looking forward to it? Are you excited?
Ivy: I think it’s quite nerve wracking because obviously you’ve probably been in the same social group for like five years plus, so I think taking that jump is nerve wracking, but it’s also like a stage of life, I think. So it is also really exciting, like I’m excited to like meet new people because you can sort of like just have a fresh start, which is sometimes really like needed.
So that’s quite exciting for me,
Harrison: Harrison. Yeah, I’m really looking forward to it. And you know, I, I imagine I’m going to meet people, especially if I do business, that people who have the same interests in the subject as me and you know, probably want to go and do the similar careers to me. And I think it’s gonna to be good because there’s gonna be, again, it’s gonna give you an opportunity to meet people with the same interests as me.
And I think naturally, you know, I’ll make a lot of friends there, so I’m looking forward to it.
Leong: Right. Can I ask you more about that? So it does sound like you are, you [00:12:00] are really interested in other people that have similar academic and also career interests in you that, that you can see yourself in a circle where you know you have people that you know, study with but also in the future work with.
Yeah,
Harrison: I think, I think it’s important that you have people like, who sort of share interests and are gonna like, encourage you to actually do what you want to do and not. You know, mess around.
Leong: Is that similar for you, Ivy?
Ivy: Yeah, at the moment because we all do really different subjects. Like for, I’m in music all the time. I’m always in the music boc in a practice room and my friends always ask like, oh, why are you in music all the time? I’m like, ’cause it’s what I want to do. So I think going somewhere where everyone sort of does the same thing as me is really like exciting because they get why I’m. In the music boc so often, whereas my friends at the moment, they’re like, you’re in there too much.
I’m like, no, I’m not. It’s okay.
Leong: Right. Okay. So you really, you see your life actually around this, you know, [00:13:00] music, um, and, and for you, Harrison, around business and around, yeah,
Ivy: yeah, definitely. I don’t see myself doing anything else.
Leong: Right then. Then, can I ask you a, a hypothetical, you’ve been selected to go on an expedition to Mars and some of the top people in the world have decided that they’re going to devote resources to building a whole new society in Mars. You being selected, get to tell them what you want to be and they’ll make it happen. What would that life look like for you?
Ivy: I think for me, I’m really into songwriting and stuff, so probably like touring and stuff.
That would probably be the dream, and just like making music, meeting new people. Like along the way, that’s the ideal dream.
Harrison: And maybe I’d like to have a career in finance, but if I could do anything at all, I’d wish to have a property company, build buildings. If I could do anything at all, that’s what I would do.
Leong: Uh, in the uk, London?
Harrison: Anywhere really. It’s kind of a weird [00:14:00] ambition, but I’d want to own like properties and hotels and stuff if I could do anything.
Leong: Is your studies and uni, is that a big part of it or it’s only one part?
Ivy: I think going to uni is helpful. For, well, for me, because I, there are some elements of like music, which I do need like to work on, but I think if I just go for it and I have the confidence in myself, uni might not be a big part of it, but uni obviously will help like get me to there.
But I don’t think it matters a huge amount. I think for some people it won’t. Like be the best thing for them. I think some people would prefer to just like go straight into like work and then some people, they’re not ready to like leave education yet. So it really depends on like, I think your mindset,
Harrison: well, I think particularly university, I think it’s important because it gives you skills that will make you valuable to [00:15:00] either, if you want to do your own thing or if you want to be like employed by someone, you have skills that are gonna make you valuable. But you’re also gonna meet people who, again, I, I said this before, but they have the same ambitions and they’re probably going, you know, these people can probably help you in achieving what you want to do, and they’ll probably know other people.
And if you’re just doing something alone, then I think it would be much harder.
Ivy: Like everyone sort of makes like long, like lifelong friends at uni. So that part, I’m like, maybe I should go because I’ll meet people with similar interests and stuff and they can help me. I can help them. So it is important, but. Yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it’s a big decision that I still don’t know really what I want to do with it.
Leong: You two have actually described life that’s actually quite different. Um, as you hear the other person tell their story, do you see that it’s actually quite a different life or do you actually see it’s quite similar, you know, the life that you’re actually going through?
Ivy: I think [00:16:00] it’s quite similar. Well, for me it’s quite similar. I think in terms of like studying, we are both sort of like we’re fixated on what we wanna do. Obviously the subjects differ and like the end goal is different. But I think working towards that, and I think that’s for everyone. Everyone sort of puts in the same amount of effort if they really want something.
Harrison: Yeah, I think so. I think so too. I think we have sort of both quite focused on what we want to do and, uh, you know, put in the work.
Leong: Do do you have siblings?
Ivy: I have a little brother. He is 12.
Harrison: Yeah. I have a little brother also. He’s, uh, 13.
Leong: Do you two give them advice about education or school?
Ivy: Oh, he’s a very different person to me, so I try and look out for him when we’re at school and I try and tell him to like, oh, maybe don’t do that, but maybe like, do this first.
But, you know, he’ll find his way, I think, by himself. But I am always there and he knows that I’m there, [00:17:00] but. Whether he like uses me to the full potential, I don’t dunno.
Leong: Would, would you prefer to be able to give him advice and he’ll listen to you?
Ivy: I would if he wasn’t so argumentative all the time.
Leong: Right.
Ivy: I think if he, he, if he would listen, then yes. But. Every now and again, it’s not the best situation.
Leong: Okay. And Harrison, does yours listen to you?
Harrison: I wish he did. I like him and I want to give him advice, but he just tells me to get lost. So do you listen to others and, and do you give advice to others? I mean, I often ask my friends for advice and I suppose when they’re making decisions and stuff, they ask me what I think, like, particularly now I’m applying to university, so I, I really like to know what they think about where, you know where I’m going. And even though we’re doing different subjects, you know, I ask their advice and they ask my advice on where to apply and things like that.
Ivy: Yeah. When I think I’m quite an approachable person, I like to think that I am well, hopefully. So sometimes [00:18:00] either like either my friends might be struggling with something, I’ll just be like honest with them.
I’ll be like, well, I don’t think you should do this. Maybe do that. And I do tend to ask for advice. But I don’t know. I’m quite a shy person I think, when it comes to like new people especially. So I’ll tend to ask like my close like friend circle instead of like venturing out.
Leong: Okay. Well then I’ll just ask this last question for the both of you about this thing of giving advice. You know, all the years that you’ve been studying and you know, you’re reaching the end of school, is there some, uh, secret that you have discovered that works for you that. Um, you think a lot of people should
Harrison: know about? I mean, for me, I guess the best advice is I have a routine of, I, I plan out when I’m going to study and what time, and my, my thing I’ll just say to myself is just to stick to the plan and, you know, focus on what to do. I don’t really think about things on the big level, just focus on what’s right in front of me at the moment and [00:19:00] then get that done.
Ivy: It’s gonna sound really like cliche, but just like, keep going. It’s like you might have days where you. Don’t want to do anything and that’s okay. Like I know I, for when I was studying for my GCSEs, some days I wouldn’t do anything and I feel so bad at the end of it ’cause all my friends would be studying like for five hours.
But like that day I just, I couldn’t deal with that. So. I think just spacing it out and don’t put too much pressure on yourself.
Leong: That’s some really good advice from Harrison and Ivy. Stick to a plan and don’t stress too much. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. We are all about helping you navigate this wild ride called Student Life, so if you had a blast and found it useful, please leave us a review and tell your friends.
Don’t forget to follow the show. Catch you in the next [00:20:00] episode.
SLU S2 E1 – Liz and Maddie – USA transcript
Liz: [00:00:00] You know, it’s ironic that we’re sitting here talking about college now because we really debated. Is it for us? Is it the right decision?
Maddie: Mm-hmm.
Liz: And you know, being very scared to make the wrong decision was a big stressor for us.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to the second series of Student Life Unplugged, where young people from all over the world share their stories about their families and friends to their studies and their dreams. I’m so grateful for all the amazing feedback that we’ve received for the first series. It’s exciting that so many of you want to take part.
You can reach us by following links in this show’s description. In this second series, we’re continuing our world tour discovering what student life is like in the US to Switzerland, to Mexico, India, and beyond. This week I’m speaking to twin sisters, Maddie and Liz from Pennsylvania in the USA. [00:01:00] They’re studying multimedia communications in Marywood University.
In our conversation, we share what sets American universities apart from the rest of the world, how COVID-19 changed their school experience and why they almost didn’t go to college at all. Maddie and Liz also has an online platform, and they co-host a successful podcast called Courageously Kind, where they share stories and promote kindness everywhere they go.
They’ve been a huge influence on me, and that’s one reason I’m thrilled to have them on this show. Here’s how our conversation started. When I first got online in those early days when COVID first hit, I was mainly trying to find out what kind of world my kids are going to grow into. And I have to say I was quite disappointed with the kind of things that I found online and especially on social media, uh, because a lot of it was very negative.
Now what kept me going was [00:02:00] the few content creators that did create positive content, who was genuine in wanting to build a better world. And so you two, our guest today, Liz and Maddie, were. Among them. And if you view some of my earlier videos, I talk a lot about getting my daily dose of kindness from,
Maddie: I love it.
Leong: From Liz and Maddie’s, uh, videos. So in a sense, my podcast and many of the stuff that I do now are outcomes from having the energy to keep going. Yeah. Because of those early days of listening to you two. So with that, I’d like to welcome Liz and Maddie Adams. Uh, welcome to the Student Life Unplugged podcast.
Maddie (2): We are so excited to be here. Thank you for having us. And, and right back at you, you’re one of those creators that just keeps us going as well. So thank you for doing what you do.
Liz: Absolutely. Yeah.
Leong: Thank you. So why don’t we start from those, uh, those early days, because you would still be at school back then.
So why do you tell the [00:03:00] audience where you’re from and you know, what life was like and what led you to being online?
Liz: So we are from the very north of Pennsylvania and we started our podcast in high school. It was COVID times and we really just needed something to do. So as seniors in high school, actually it was Maddie’s idea
Maddie: And she thought I was crazy when I said, let’s start a podcast. Like I think this is something that we could do to put some positivity into the world and share some positivity with our friends and family. And she looked at me like I was, I had foreheads.
Liz: I thought she was not. Yeah, yeah. But eventually. I came around to the idea and Courageously Kind was born. Yeah.
Leong: Did you listen to a lot of podcasts back then? You know why? Why podcasts?
Maddie: I had listened to a few more, like news. I think we were just having these conversations. We were talking a lot because there was nothing else to [00:04:00] do during the pandemic. We were all inside or, or, you know. Going on walks outside and having all of these conversations about how we can solve some of the world’s biggest problems.
And something we just kept coming back to was kindness. Kindness is something that anyone, anywhere can do to help make the world a better place and help contribute to the world being a better place. And so I said, what if we just recorded these conversations? And shared them with the world.
Leong: Yeah.
Maddie: Liz wasn’t really a podcast listener. I had to kind of rope her into that, but I think, I think we’ve got her hooked now.
Liz: Yeah. No, I love them.
Leong: Right. Okay. No, you, you two sound very close and from a lot of your online content, it sounds like you’re, you’re really close. So, you were in the same school together. I take it.
Maddie: Yeah, we are, yes. We’ve been in the same school for our whole lives, and we went to university together.
We’re studying the same things in university. We still live together, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we’re pretty, we’re pretty inseparable.
Liz: [00:05:00] It’s very twin of us.
Maddie: Yes.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yep. I, I like to get into your podcast and your content of course, but let’s talk about school. Tell me what it was like, the end of school, and you know, your decisions about.
Going to university, which university, you know, what was it like making those decisions?
Liz: I’ll be honest, it was a bit of a difficult time, especially during COVID. We couldn’t go tour schools. And if we did tour schools, there was like nobody around. Yeah. You know, it was ironic that we’re sitting here talking about college now because we really debated, is it for us? Is it the right decision?
Maddie: Mm-hmm.
Liz: And I think just , You know, being very scared to make the wrong decision mm-hmm. Was a big stressor for us. So again, it’s just ironic that, you know, we kind of landed on our feet and we’re talking about it here today. Yeah. I love it.
Maddie: We go to Marywood University, which is a small liberal arts [00:06:00] college in Pennsylvania.
I think the school that we chose, we chose for a lot of reasons. It was a good distance away from home. We were looking to live away from home for the first time and get that sort of experience. Okay. So it’s only about an hour from our home, which we felt was a good, comfortable distance for us.
Leong: You were wondering whether college was for you, what were the alternatives?
Maddie: I think the alternatives, were trying to just enter the job force wherever we could. We really were not sure what we wanted to do. Yeah. After school, you know, we had this podcast thing and we sort of liked creating content, but we weren’t sure even if there were degrees in that or if that was something that we wanted to pursue as a career.
So we ended up going to school undecided. So in the States you can do that. You can go to school without a major and just sort of try things and take your preliminary courses. And that’s what we did. And I’m very grateful for that freedom to try things out and. And to say, yes, this class feels like it’s a good fit for me, or no, this class doesn’t feel like a good fit for me.[00:07:00]
Leong: Yeah. The experience you’re telling is quite different to some of the students from around the world? There’s two aspects I hear. One is that you can think about, I won’t go to college even though I have the opportunity to ’cause a lot of paths for a lot of Asian students, for instance, are set, you must go to college if you have the opportunity.
Maddie: Yeah.
Leong: Then the the second one is what? University life is, well, let’s, let’s talk about that first one. So if you didn’t go to uni in the United States, tell me about what life would be like.
Maddie: Yeah.
Leong: If you don’t go to university, you go straight into the job market.
Maddie: Well, I can say we definitely would still be living at home for sure.
So that would’ve been a different experience. And I am grateful that we did decide to go away and get that sort of independent experience, I think helped us grow. A lot.
Liz: Yeah. And I think too, our options would be much more limited. Yeah. If we’ve gone right into the workforce. So I’m very grateful that we’re taking the time to get that degree.
Maddie: [00:08:00] Yeah.
Leong: Right. Okay. You wouldn’t have a clear idea as in you have jobs waiting for you. You would just go out and look
Maddie: Exactly. And that could be a challenge for sure.
Leong: Many people want to go to the United States. A lot of my nephews included, but the news is dominated by the major universities.
And sometimes that’s accurate. Sometimes that’s not. Is that the case in the US itself that is dominated by the Harvards and the Stanfords? Do other universities like Marywood get their fair share of. The audience. Yeah, the prospective students.
Maddie: That’s the challenge right now, right? We’re actually both interning at the marketing office at our school, so that’s the big challenge is how do we break through the noise,
Leong (2): right?
Maddie (2): Of these, these giant schools. I think those giant schools like the Harvards and the Stanfords are great for some people. Some people really thrive in that environment. I think we really thrived in this smaller environment. In an environment where you just get to know the people. In your community much better because it’s not as big.
You get to know [00:09:00] the campus much better. It, it’s kind of the same thing as like people wanting to live in a big city versus not living in a big city. I think. Smaller schools are just, are just a better fit for some people and they definitely were for us.
Liz: Yeah,
Maddie: Definitely.
Liz: I definitely think we gained more opportunities that way. Um, to kind of brag on you for a second, Maddie has the phone number of the president of the university. We text sometimes just text her.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Liz: That kind of smaller community really does have some wonderful benefits, I think.
Maddie: Yeah, definitely.
Leong: Does that happen to every student? Every student at the president of the university’s phone number?
Maddie: We work for our school newspaper, and she recently was elected as president and I had talked to the marketing office at school, and I had wanted to set up an interview with her and they gave me her phone number and she texts me every now and then, which is very nice.
Leong: Okay. That’s a, that’s a good perk to have.
Maddie: Yeah.
Leong: So from outside. Of, uh, the United States. We hear about, uh, university [00:10:00] and university towns especially where life is built around the university. Is that the case in Marywood??
Maddie: I think it is sort of, you know, yeah. It, it, there is a huge thriving, I feel like, young life scene in Scranton, Pennsylvania.
Have you ever seen the office, the show? The office? Yes. Okay. So our college is in the town where the office is set, so Scranton, Pennsylvania.
Leong: Oh, wow.
Maddie: And it’s kind of their claim to fame. So I, I would say that that is more appealing than the, the university town aspect. But yeah.
Leong: Uh, just, just as a sidetrack, so recently you had your Kindness Week and you had a Ryan Wilson that you were trying to get. On there.
Maddie: We tried really hard
I didn’t know that he had that very, very close association to Scranton.
Maddie: Isn’t that wild? I know it.
Leong: Yeah.
Maddie: Maybe next year we can get him to come.
Leong: Yeah. Yeah. We’ll have to work on it because next year is going to be Kindness Week International. Well tell the audience about your Kindness Week at Marywood.
Liz: Yeah, so Kindness [00:11:00] Week started as kind of a, a push from some of our professors. They were seeing what Courageously Kind was doing online with the podcast and they really urged us to do something physical and tangible on campus. So originally it was gonna be kindness month and we were like, that’s a very long time.
Maddie: That’s a lot of programming for four weeks. Yeah.
Liz: So we kind of backed it down to a week. Yeah. And it really, it’s just an opportunity for students and anyone on campus to actively participate in kindness.
Maddie: So we have four to five days worth of programming, and it’s very simple, easy activities. So for example, one of the activities is our kindness wall.
We have people write kind messages on sticky notes, and we display them on a window or a wall that’s very visible on campus. And it also kind of acts as like the visual marker of like, Hey, something’s happening here. And when people take a [00:12:00] closer look, they can get a little bit of kindness too.
Leong: Right? Wow. So, so those are the things I’m hoping to be able to take international, to bring to Australia and perhaps to other parts of the world.
Maddie: It would be awesome.
Leong: We can, we can talk about that another time.. So, so at Marywood, you know, what is life like on campus?
Liz: I will admit our sport teams are not the best, but they’re very fun to go watch.
Maddie: We’re not in any of the big conferences. No. But if you’re looking for, you know, something to do in the afternoon.
Yeah,
Liz: yeah. So there’s always a, a sports game. Usually movies are always playing somewhere. Always opportunities for just like recreation too, just meeting up with other students and just kind of getting to know each other.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, we’re kind of tucked up on the hill, so we have a lot of nature. Um, we have a lot of environmental programs Yeah. And clubs and so just a lot of very more laid back ways to get to know students, which [00:13:00] I love. Yeah.
Leong: And what are the, the student like, um, you said you, you like the environment there.
Maddie: Yeah, I would say that that Marywood is actually pretty diverse, which is cool. There’s a nice range of thoughts and opinions and people from all kinds of backgrounds, people from big cities, people from smaller towns, and so that’s been really cool. I think that’s been my favorite thing is, is to go to college and meet people from all over, because our high school and middle school experience, we went to a really small school and we were with the same kids from, you know.
Kindergarten to high school graduation. Yeah. And so it was really interesting to go to college and all of a sudden. Meet a ton of new people.
Leong: Yeah. So you would’ve been pretty close to your schoolmates at school. Yeah. And then having to, I suppose, part ways go to different university and go to a relatively big one.
Yeah. What did that feel like going from that small town to, you know, big campus?
Liz: Definitely a little bit of a culture shock. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, you don’t realize how [00:14:00] easy it is when you know people for so long.
Leong: Mm-hmm.
Liz: You don’t really have to make friends. You know, build relationships.
Leong: Yep.
Liz: So it definitely a, a kinda a wake up of like, oh my gosh, I have to like, almost start over in a way.
Yeah. Which is scary. Yeah. But also beautiful, I think.
Leong: Yeah, yeah,
Maddie: for sure.
Leong: How do you make friends?
Maddie: Making friends was really hard, and especially I think our freshman year, there were still a lot of COVID guidelines. We weren’t really supposed to gather in big groups, right? So they weren’t having a lot of the typical freshman sort of orientation.
We had freshman orientation, but we had to social distance and we were outside, so it wasn’t really the same. Same as it had been in in previous years. Liz and I tried to host a lot of game nights. We just kind of like told people on our floor and, and I think the, the Student Life Office does a good job too, of trying to do programming to get kids together [00:15:00] just to come and hang out and have.
Dinner or, you know, they, they do events off campus where they get a bus and they fill the bus and you go play mini golf or something. So the, the university does a great job, but it, it took a, a little bit of courage on our part, definitely to just kind of knock on people’s doors and say, Hey, we have free cookies in the lounge if you wanna come and hang out.
Food always helps.
Leong: Right okay.
Maddie: Bribing people with food always helps.
Leong: So living a life on campus, again, the rest of the world is dominated by American television. So, um, a lot of, movies and TV shows about our campus life. So is it as vibrant as, uh, we see on tv?
Maddie: Our freshman year was interesting again because we weren’t really co-mingling with a lot of people, but I think our sophomore year, once COVID restrictions sort of lightened up and people were more comfortable in larger groups, it definitely did feel a bit more vibrant. I will say our campus is not a huge party [00:16:00] school. We have a party school about 10 minutes away, so I know a lot of
Leong: There’s a party school?
Maddie: Yes. Okay. Where the party culture is maybe a bit more, so there’s the option there, I guess. For our students if they want to, you know, go downtown and have that college town sort of seen with food and, and music and that sort of thing. But our campus is, is a little bit more quiet, which I kind of prefer to be honest.
Leong: Yeah. Um, so, uh, what. Are you studying at uni?
Liz: Yeah, we’re both studying multimedia communications.
Leong: That’s very interesting. What does that involve?
Maddie: Our program is sort of interesting in the sense that we get to try a lot of different things. So the under the communications department falls, things like film and tv.
Journalism, sports media, which is not really our thing, but Cool to, you know, try out at least once. And so we’re on an interdisciplinary track, which means we get to try a little bit from every program, which is really exciting. So we get to do, yeah, a little bit of journalism and, and [00:17:00] digital communications.
We get to do a little bit of PR and advertising, which really appealed to us when. Because we weren’t sure exactly what we wanted to do after school.
Leong: Okay.
Maddie: Getting to have a chance to sort of do all of these different things and sort of broaden our degree a little bit was really appealing for us.
Leong: Yeah.
How, how does your work on Courageously Kind and the podcast and all the other content you create? You, you’ve mentioned a bit about its link to your communication studies. Can you go more into that?
Maddie: Absolutely. And you know, it’s funny because we had started the podcast before we went to university, and when we went to university, we really weren’t sure.
We were like, what, what is the one thing that we love? And it took us a year to figure out that what we loved and what we wanted to do was what we’ve been doing all along. I don’t know why it took us that long, but thank God we had the, the freedom and the opportunity to figure that out. But we’ve learned so much about things like audio production, about script writing, about [00:18:00] editing, and all of this sort of backend work that goes into creating podcasts or creating digital content.
That has just been so helpful, and to have teachers and mentors to sort of talk through ideas with and, and help us bring an idea to life online has been just so worthwhile.
Leong: Yeah. The decision making in terms of you know, what to do and are there support within the university that helps you with, with making those decisions? You said that the first year, you don’t have to choose your major yet.
Liz: We’ve been really lucky. We’ve had incredible support. Everyone that goes in without picking a major is paired up with an advisor. Right. And you meet at least once a month. And you talk about your interests, your hobbies, what you like to study, maybe what you don’t like, and they really take the time to, first of all, get to know you as a person. Then they help you find what’s the best fit.
Leong: Right. Okay.
Liz: So we’ve been really lucky to have [00:19:00] great advisors that kind of guide us along. Yeah.
Maddie: Not everyone I know is that lucky. But we were really lucky to have an advisor that was so attentive and got to know us so well to help us through that process.
Leong: This is something very different to what a lot of students tell us, where they, they feel like they don’t get the support. Interesting. So is that access to the advisor because you reached out to them? Or do you see most of your peers actually have that support and actually make use of that support?
Maddie: I think our case was interesting because we came in undeclared at our university.
It’s mandatory that you meet with an advisor if you haven’t chosen a major. But we have had friends in other programs that have other advisors that feel, like you said, like they don’t have that support that they need. So I think it is sort of a case by case basis. We were very lucky to have that support and resource.
I think a lot of advisors also are very overworked.
Leong: Yeah.
Maddie (2): And they just don’t have the time to get to know us. Like our advisor had the [00:20:00] time to, to get to know us and work with us. So I do feel for those students that. That don’t have that support that we had for sure.
Leong: So your advisor, it sounds like they helped you a lot in terms of, uh, selecting your path for your courses.
Maddie: Definitely.
Leong: But other aspects, uh, emotional support, mental health support, uh, is that part of the advisor’s role as well? I.
Maddie: Actually, yes. And, and they did a wonderful job of, of kind of helping us through the entire part of the first year college experience. She, you know, recommended mental health resources like you were talking about.
And we’re lucky to have those resources on campus as well, that the advisors can sort of help us, a, a mentor and a guide you to those resources.
Leong: As in counselors or professionals that you can see?
Maddie: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We do have a team of counselors on campus, which is amazing.
Leong: Is this something unique to, to Marywood or do you know that a lot of campuses actually have this in the States?
Maddie: I believe that a lot of campuses do have this. I’m not sure how [00:21:00] similar it is to Marywood in the sense that we have access to like a, a hotline 24 hours and counselors are there every day of the week. But I know that most universities. Do have to offer some sort of mental health support and resources.
Leong: Right. Okay. Are there a lot of, uh, international students there?
Maddie: They are working to build our international program for sure. Their goal is to have 10% of the students be international students, which is awesome.
Liz: And there is also a, a specific advisor for them too. Mm-hmm. That typically speaks their native language and knows their culture.
And so it’s really. Really wonderful that they have someone that can help them. Mm-hmm. Kinda acclimate.
Maddie: Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm.
Leong: So your life now, uh, this will be, you know, what I call a third year. Yeah. How many more years do you have to go with your studies?
Maddie: We’ve got one more left. Yes, it’s bittersweet.
It’s very exciting, but I, I am sad that it’s our last one.
Leong: So at this stage, do you look beyond our graduation? [00:22:00] You think about what, what you’re doing? Do you guys do internship? And, uh, placements and stuff like that.
Maddie: Yeah. So it, it’s sort of up to us. The option is available. We are gonna intern at our school actually, which is, which will be fun.
Leong: Okay.
Maddie: But that is an option, and that is something that’s encouraged, is to go out there and get a taste for workforces and, and maybe potentially, you know, internships that, that turn to jobs after graduation.
Leong: And that happens in your final year?
Liz: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and we also still work with those advisors too, which is really, really helpful.
Yeah. We have a, a career development center too, so a specific office that is dedicated towards resume building and job searching and, and so it’s really, really helpful.
Leong: Okay. So what, what then about the work that you do, you know, you do a significant amount of, other work, that you do with your online content, the advocacy that, that goes along with it. Can you tell the audience about that?
Liz: Yeah, so I, I would say in addition to just kindness in [00:23:00] general, one of the things that we’re really passionate about is called face equality, and it’s really advocacy for those with facial disfigurements or deformities. Either due to birth or accident.
Leong: Right.
Liz: So we are really, really passionate about just making sure that people with deformities are represented well, that we’re kind of counteracting some of the negative stereotypes and media and really that, uh, that people with differences can be treated with kindness like everybody else.
Maddie: Absolutely. Yeah.
Leong: Because you put out a lot of content on that and it’s amazing. Just thank you. The. Not only what you put out, but the responses that you get. Yeah. But your involvement with Face Equality International, uh, that’s something that you plan to continue, uh, working towards?
Maddie: Definitely. Absolutely. I think it’s gonna be a part of our lives throughout our whole lives for sure.
Leong: So talking to a lot of students, some students have their plans all made out. You know, they know that A, [00:24:00] B, C, and B to, to get there, and then they’re. Those that are a lot looser.
Maddie: Yes.
Leong: How do you think about your future?
Maddie: This is interesting because we both are planners. We love a plan, we love, you know, having things all organized and ready to go.
But in terms of our futures, the plan is a little uncertain and I think a lot of college has been learning to sort of accept that. You sometimes never know the way that life. Is gonna go and just kind of taking, yeah, the next step, the dream I think would be to be able to create this content full-time, for sure, right after graduation.
I think we are looking for jobs and employment to sort of support us while we sort of support the show and that sort of thing. But yeah, it’s definitely a dream of ours to do this for the rest of our lives. Definitely. For sure. So the next step will be graduation, which is crazy. And then looking for jobs and also hopefully building courageously kind as big as we can.
Leong: That sounds like an exciting future. I know [00:25:00] Certainly that I’ll be following where you two go.
Maddie: Thank you.
Leong: But just to wrap up, what advice do you give having walked this path for somebody thats coming on campus new and, and starting out their university journey.
Liz: Well, you know, it’s such a cliche to be to say don’t be afraid, but I think I would say be afraid and do it anyway.
Even if it’s a little tiny step to go to a social event or go sit with somebody in the dining hall. Yeah. Just try and baby steps and don’t be too focused on those uncomfortable moments.
Leong: Okay.
Maddie: You kind of took my answer, but I was gonna also say, just try new things. Don’t be afraid to try something.
And if you fail and it sucks, then you don’t have to do it again, and you can try something else
Leong: Right ya.
Maddie: But college is that time where you can try new things and discover new things about yourself, but along those lines, be kind to yourself in the process. College is a journey and you’re figuring so [00:26:00] much out about yourself and about life and about your future career, and it can be easy to beat yourself up about things that you don’t have control over, right?
Like, I, I wish I, I had a plan, or I wish that, you know, I was further along in life. Like some of my peers, it can be so easy to compare yourself to other people. So being kind to yourself, giving yourself a lot of kindness and grace and patience through that process is really gonna help you have just a, a better, happier experience.
Leong: That’s great advice. So I recommend all our audience members follow that and also look for Courageously Kind, not only a podcast, but a whole platform, uh, around that. Anything else that our audience should know in terms of your work?
Maddie: This podcast is an amazing podcast. I just wanna throw it right back at you and say that like, if we had something like this when we were, you know, trying to figure out where to go to college, I think it would’ve.
It definitely eased our minds a little bit. So thank you for what you do, and thank you for having us on and being able to share our [00:27:00] podcast, but also our college experience too.
Leong: I love that conversation with Maddie and Liz. They’re full of positivity and wisdom, and I think their message of kindness is something we all need.
So if you haven’t yet do check out their podcast, Courageously Kind is perfect for those days when you need a lift. Thanks so much for tuning in on Student Life Unplugged. If you’re new here, there’s a whole series waiting for you with students from places like the UK, Ireland, Singapore, and Malaysia. If you enjoy this episode, please share it with friends or anyone beginning their university journey, and don’t forget to leave us a review.
See you in the next episode.
SLU S2 E2 – Lara and Enya – Switzerland transcript
Lara: [00:00:00] If you know you want to go to university, you have to know it really early because
Leong: how early,
Lara: like it’s, I think at 12.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, where students from around the world share real conversations about their lives from their families and friends to their studies and their dreams. This week we’re off to Switzerland to chat with Lara and Enya. Both university students. Lara is training to be a teacher and Enya is studying geography, although she still has to figure out what she wants to do with it.
We talk about the surprising fact that in Switzerland students have to decide on their future career path by the age of 12. Now that’s pressure. We also explore Switzerland’s landscape, food, culture and how students socialise across the country. Lara and Enya also share experiences about their jobs they’ve taken on to pay their way through uni and [00:01:00] how working can be both fun and enriching.
I start by asking them to tell us a bit about their country.
Lara: We are from Switzerland. It’s quite a small country in the middle of Europe. Okay. And we have four official languages in our country. Swiss German or like German, and then French Italian. And we have a really small language that’s called Romansh.
Leong: So how does that work? Um, the four official language. So you have to know all four. And, and what about your education system?
Lara: So, um, we speak German. We are from the German part of Switzerland. And we actually, we start to learn French at about nine years old. Yeah. Or 10 like in middle school.
Um, but most of us don’t speak it very well.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Lara: So normally you speak one or two languages. But not all of them.
Leong: So what, what is [00:02:00] life like then? Uh, we’ll go to Enya. Uh, what’s life like growing up, where you are? Where exactly is it to start off with?
Enya: It’s in the northeast of Switzerland, right at the lake of Constance.
We are right next to Austria. Like I’m there in like five minutes. Perfect. And yeah, Germany is just another like 20 minutes, 40 minutes, uh, with the car. Okay. Or train. And Liechtenstein is also really close.
Leong: Yeah.
Enya: France and Italy, you have about three hours to get there,
Leong: so, so is it regular, you know, that uh, people go on trips or family outings?
You go to different countries?
Enya: Yes. I have family in Austria and in Italy, so, right. Yeah, we go there pretty often.
Leong: Okay. But, but then what about language? Because, uh, you speak German, uh, German, Swiss, uh, so when you go to Italy, you speak Italian as well?
Lara: We, we [00:03:00] don’t speak Italian. Um, you can choose to study it in school if you want to.
Yeah, it’s an extra.
Leong: But both. Both. Your English is really good. Is English widely spoken in Switzerland?
Lara: Yes. Um, we start to learn it in school, I think at seven years old. And then after two years, French comes to it. So we learn, we actually speak three different languages in school.
Enya: Mm-hmm. Wow.
Lara: Yeah.
And also like we speak Swiss German, but when we are at school, everybody speaks German. Yeah.
Leong: Seems like landscape is, uh, would be quite amazing. Describe to me the landscape around where you live.
Enya: Yeah, there is a lot of trees, lakes. A lot of lakes.
Lara: Yes. Also the mountains.
Leong: Okay.
Enya: Yeah, it’s really beautiful.
Leong: And skiing, uh, I hear about skiing in, in Switzerland.
Lara: Yes. Um, Switzerland is quite a fan of skiing. I mean, we have so many mountains around us where we can go skiing, but it’s quite expensive, so, yeah.
Leong: Right. Okay. [00:04:00] So the ones who are not as rich can’t go to resort. Can you still ski?
Lara: Yeah, you can. When you are in school, we go skiing with the school.
Enya: Okay. Yeah.
Lara: So every child has the chance to go skiing if they want to. Okay. And if you don’t, there is also a program where you go like ice skating and different things like that.
Leong: So, so I’m in Australia. I ice skate. I used to be competitive ice dancer, but that’s a different story. So when you skate, you skate outside, right?
On the, the frozen lakes?
Lara: Uh, no, it’s like, um, ice, some indoor ice rinks. Yeah,
Enya (2): yeah, yeah. You can skate on some lakes like in the Engadine like Saint Moritz,
Leong: right? Mm-hmm. Why those lakes and, and not others?
Enya: The others don’t really freeze over in winter.
Leong: Okay. Yeah.
Enya: Like the lake of Constance, this one doesn’t freeze.
It’s too big
Leong: that that’ll be swimming then. It’s not skating. Yeah. Yeah.
Enya: There are people that do that.
Leong: What about [00:05:00] food? What’s food like?
Lara: Um, we have like some typical Swiss food, like that’s like. Cheese or fondue. Okay. Um, we are quite famous for that. Ah, yes, because the Swiss cheese and yeah. Also the Swiss chocolate I think.
Yeah. We have like 26 cantons. These are like the parts of Switzerland and like every part has like it’s special food.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. What about where you are besides the uh, the cheese? The chocolates?
Chocolates! I can see your face light up. With the chocolate.
Enya: Yeah. I love chocolate.
Lara: Um, where we are from, I think there’s like this sausage that we are quite from. Yeah, yeah. We are from St. Gallen and they call it the St. Galler Bratwurst,
Leong: Right.
Lara: And it’s quite funny because, um, uh, we always say. Don’t eat it with mustard because it’s too good for [00:06:00] them and the other parts of Switzerland fight with us about that, so, yeah.
Leong: Oh, right. Yeah. That sounds very yummy. Okay. When you two meet, are, were you in the same school?
Lara: We met at school, but um, the funny stories that we met a little bit before that. We went, both went to a special course where you, you learn how to train little kids. Okay. So we both met there and after that we went to the school and we’re like, ah, I know you.
Yeah.
Leong: How old were you when, uh, when you were doing that? Is it a school program for young kids or
Lara: No, you. Can do that in your free time if you want to be like a counselor in a camp or something. Okay. Yes. You can do that to train for it. Yeah.
Enya: Okay.
Leong: Yeah. Yes.
Lara: We were about 12 years old. Yeah.
Leong: Mm-hmm. That’s a great thing to, you know, pair 12 year olds with younger children.
So the [00:07:00] preparation for university, what, what happens? Yeah. How, how do you make your choices with, uh, going to university?
Lara: If you know you want to go to university, you have to know it really early because
Leong: How early?
Lara: Like it’s I think at 12.
Leong: 12,
Lara: yeah. Yeah. Wow. A young 12. Yes. Because you can go to this school, you have to go there for four years until you are 18.
Leong: Yeah.
Lara: And then you can go directly to university. And if you don’t do that, you have to make some quite more steps until you can do it. So that’s the easiest way.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yes. That’s quite early. So how did you find it? Did you know, uh, whether you wanted to go to university, I mean, both of you?
Lara: I wanted to, I always said, I am going to go there and I’m going to be, and I thought I’m was going to be a doctor.
Turns out I’m not. But I, I knew I wanted to study something, so,
Leong: yeah. Okay. So, is it just enrolling in a school?
Enya: [00:08:00] No. Are you like one year into high school? You, you decide? Yes. I, I want to go there. Okay. And then you prepare yourself for an entrance exam.
Leong: Oh, wow.
Enya: The test? Yeah, like a test on math. German, French, and English.
That you have to pass
Leong: Seems like a, a big decision and a lot of pressure that, was that how you felt?
Enya: Yeah. Challenging.
Leong: So is it just among those of you who wants to take it or are they, uh, private teachers or how do you, how do you prepare for an exam? So young,
Enya: our school didn’t really support us that much in going there.
Like we didn’t really have.
We had to study for this exam ourself.
Lara: In my school, it was like you had to choose a course next to [00:09:00] your normal timetable from school, and then you went like, uh, Wednesday afternoon for like two hours. For half a year and they prepped us. But that, that’s not in every school like that.
Enya: Yeah. I think we had like four times where we met up, like over at lunch.
Then we had like some prep exams. Yeah. Like we could ask the, the teacher some questions, like I wasn’t that much.
Leong: Okay. Is it the case that you have to study, uh, even if you’re going for a job, is that normal in Switzerland?
Lara: Yes. So we have, like in high school, we have like two levels, I think like the upper level and the lower level.
I mean, there are jobs you only can do if you are in the upper level. So the pressure is. On before you go to high school because everybody wants to get into the higher level and Okay. I mean, there are many [00:10:00] parents that want their children to go there, so Yeah. You have to study to get into the jobs.
Leong: So tell us what you chose and why you chose them.
Lara: So I’m going to be a teacher. I have to study three years for that. So first to sixth grade teacher and Okay. Um, I chose it because after the four years of this school, I didn’t know what I wanted to study, so I did like one year of working in a school where children with special needs go to, like children with autism or ADHD and things like that.
Leong: Okay.
Lara: And I really liked it there. And then I chose to get into teaching children. And after that I can also do like two more years, uh, while I’m working. And then I can also work with children with special needs.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. So, so you enjoy that. So working with children
Lara: Yes.
Leong: Yeah. Okay. That’s wonderful. So Enya?
Enya: I designed and study [00:11:00] geography. Because, yeah, I was always interested in like different countries, different cultures, what life is like in other parts of the world.
Leong: Yeah. Though you can see the, the map on your wall. So yeah, that’s it. You go to sleep dreaming of all these maps.
Enya: Yeah.
Leong: So, so where has that, uh, led you now?
So where are, are both of you now?
Lara: I’m starting my second year next week.
Leong: Okay. At university.
Lara: Yeah. They call it different in Switzerland. So I’m at the, Pädagogische Hochschule. There is not really an English name for it. It’s a special kind of university. Enya is at the actual university and they study like the subject.
Leong: Okay.
Lara: And where I am, I study the job..
Leong: But it’s a university degree.
Lara: Yeah, you get a bachelor from it,
Leong: and then from there you do teaching. Is that right?
Lara: Yes.
Leong: Mm. Okay. And, uh, Enya, so tell us where you are.
Enya: I finished like my second year at university and [00:12:00] now I will have two more years for my bachelor’s degree.
Leong: Is it normal for most courses to be four years?
Enya: No, like it’s three years, but because I work, I. Chose to do it for four years.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. Well then, uh, let’s talk about the difference experience between you. So, um, and yeah, you moving over to, to Bern and are you studying where you live? Uh, what’s the experience like? Um, have you two compared notes?
Lara: Yeah. I think the biggest difference is, first of all, that I’m still living at home with my parents and she lives in a dorm room.
Leong: Okay. And, yeah. Yeah. So let, let’s start with you. So moving away, uh, what was that like?
Enya: It was pretty easy for me, I think. Okay. I like getting away from home, but like, I also went back every weekend because I had to work.
Leong: Right. What do you [00:13:00] do?
Enya (2): I work with peoples with handicap, A facility where they live.
Leong: Hmm, wonderful. How does that contribute to your life working while you are studying and especially doing the work that you do?
Enya: It opened up other perspectives that I like didn’t have before I started working there.
Right, okay.
Like accessibility and stuff like that. Yeah, it was a really great experience. It still is like you learn a lot about, be more accepting you. You notice how. Much, those people are bit neglected in society. Mm-hmm.
Leong: Yeah. So, so currently you are traveling, uh, back home on the weekends in order to do that job.
Yes. And you plan to continue to do this throughout, uh, your third and fourth year? Yes.
Enya: Yes. I plan to do, because I mean, I have. To get money somehow.
Leong: Right. [00:14:00] Okay. Yeah. So I bring Lara in. Uh, so are, are you working?
Lara: Yes. I work at a shop where they sell costumes and clothes from the sixties.
Leong: Oh, wow. That that’s interesting.
Yeah, only from the sixties.
Lara: Yeah, it’s like a rockabilly style.
Leong: Oh, right. Is that very popular there? Do they have a lot of events with that theme?
Lara: We have like some car meetings with like the old American cars, US car meetings. Okay. And there are many people that come to our shop. They also come from Germany or like, uh, the other parts of Switzerland because there is like, no.
Shop like that near us. So yeah.
Leong: That’s very interesting. Yeah. Are you working to get extra money or is it actually uh, essential?
Lara: So for me it’s like I don’t want my parents to pay for everything I do because yeah. If you are in school, you don’t get any money for it.
Leong: Yeah. ‘
Lara: cause I work, I can like buy my own clothes [00:15:00] and things like that and go away with my friends yeah,
Enya: yeah, yeah. It’s the same for me. Like my parents were like, yeah, you should get a job because yeah, we won’t pay for everything.
Leong: Right, okay.
Enya: Like they pay for my accommodation and like the cost for studying there, the rest, the stuff I want to eat, clothes, vacation, I have to pay myself.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. This is very responsible. A lot of parts of Asia. The parents tell their kids to finish their university before they get a job, so they concentrate on on that, you know. What’s it like for you? Uh, the, what’s the cost of studying at the university for both of you?
Lara: In Switzerland, it’s really nice because in my degree I pay one thousand per year for the university and a little bit more for like books and things like that. But it’s just really, it’s not much. It’s like, uh, in Euros it’s nearly the same. So I mean, the rest gets paid by the government, so it would be much more.
Leong: Yeah,
Enya: Like in [00:16:00] Bern it’s about 800 Swiss Francs
Leong: So, so it’s, it’s not much, but it’s cost of living high.
Um, you feel the pressure to earn enough in order to pay for the things you want to buy?
Lara: So Switzerland is quite an expensive country, because of that, the salaries are also a little bit higher. But if you only do like a students job or something, you get around, but it’s not like you can’t go like out every weekend or under the week.
Yeah. So,
Leong: okay. Yeah. Is part of the earning, uh, to sustain the social life, uh, what’s social life like?
Enya: I mean, you, you meet up for like eating or drinks like most students, yeah. Parties are like on Thursdays.
Leong: Why Thursdays?
Enya: That’s just how it’s, I guess I, I wonder that too, because.
Lara: It’s funny because we have a saying, I don’t know if it’s for out of Switzerland, but they say.[00:17:00]
Uh, that Thursday is the ‘kleiner Freitag’ That’s like the small Friday,
Leong: Right?
Lara: So you, you go into Friday where you can drink much with a little bit of drinks.
Leong: Is social life very vibrant? At the university?
Lara: We have like a student organization in my, uh, university where they plan some different kinds of parties. Most of them are like in the city of St Gallen, so we have like 20 minutes per train to get there. But it’s really nice. There are like. I mean once a month.
Enya: Yeah.
Leong: What about bern? Um, how’s Bern different in terms of social life compared to where you came from?
Enya: It’s a big city, so obviously there is like more events. People are more open-minded. Um, yeah. Social.
Leong: What do you mean open-minded?
Enya: Yeah, we are from a more conservative part of Switzerland. And they are like more on the left side in [00:18:00] politics. And yeah, they’re just more laid back open to talk to other people and yeah.
Leong: Right.
Lara: Yeah. And maybe also we live like more on the countryside. Like we have many villages that are next to each other. And when you go out at the weekend, there are many different little festivals. You often go there. You don’t go to the city and go into bars, you go to a small village festival, you dance there and drink and eat there.
Leong: Do Swiss like to party?
Lara: I think so. I mean we have like Carnival in January and February and that lasts like for two months.
Leong: Okay. Too much?
Lara: Every weekend.
Leong: Okay. So, so for the both of you, you know, where, where do you hope to go from here?
Enya (2): I have to study another two years after those two years for my master’s degree because like just with the bachelor, like I wouldn’t find a job. So I have [00:19:00] four years to decide what I wanna do.
Really?
Leong: So Lara, then your, your future.
Lara: First of all, I just had to choose if I wanted to teach children from first to sixth grade or kindergarten to third. So I had to specialize from these two, and I’m going to go with four to six.
Leong: Okay.
Lara: And yeah, in two years, I will have to decide if I’m going to get the smaller ones or the bigger ones, and I think I’m going to have the small ones when they start school.
And yeah, I’m going to have my own class right after that. I’m excited about that, but also a little bit afraid because like then there are like 20 little humans there that I have to teach. And
yeah,
Leong: I mean, we can hear the excitement in your voice, but um, I can see your eyes light up as well as. So, okay.
So what’s your advice to students entering uni, uh, fresh, and, um, you [00:20:00] know, based on your experience, what do you think is the important things for them to know?
Enya: I think you shouldn’t work too much in your first year, and the students slack off, go to the lectures and do your homework and then everything will turn out fine.
Lara: For me it’s like, don’t worry too much before you go there because it’s never as hard as you believe it will be. And also sometimes you will get to the point where you think, oh no, why am I doing that? Or, oh, it’s really hard, especially before you have your exams, but just stick to it and try to do it. It works out so
Leong: well. It sounds like that came out of, uh, a lot of experience, so.
Alright, well I wanna thank the, the both of you. That’s very good advice that, uh, you gave and also sharing your experiences, you know, where you are from, what schooling and education is like in Switzerland. And I hope you [00:21:00] enjoyed the experience.
Enya: Yeah, thank you too.
Lara: It was really nice.
Leong: I am still wrapping my head around how early students in Switzerland have to make big decisions about their future, but Lara and Enya seems to be handling it well. Thanks for listening to Student Life Unplugged. If you’re new here, we’ve got a whole series of conversations with students from places like the UK, Ireland, Singapore, and Malaysia.
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends or anyone who’s starting their uni journey, and don’t forget to leave us a review. Catch you next time.
SLU S2 E2 – Lara and Enya – Switzerland transcript
Lara: [00:00:00] If you know you want to go to university, you have to know it really early because
Leong: how early,
Lara: like it’s, I think at 12.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, where students from around the world share real conversations about their lives from their families and friends to their studies and their dreams. This week we’re off to Switzerland to chat with Lara and Enya. Both university students. Lara is training to be a teacher and Enya is studying geography, although she still has to figure out what she wants to do with it.
We talk about the surprising fact that in Switzerland students have to decide on their future career path by the age of 12. Now that’s pressure. We also explore Switzerland’s landscape, food, culture and how students socialise across the country. Lara and Enya also share experiences about their jobs they’ve taken on to pay their way through uni and [00:01:00] how working can be both fun and enriching.
I start by asking them to tell us a bit about their country.
Lara: We are from Switzerland. It’s quite a small country in the middle of Europe. Okay. And we have four official languages in our country. Swiss German or like German, and then French Italian. And we have a really small language that’s called Romansh.
Leong: So how does that work? Um, the four official language. So you have to know all four. And, and what about your education system?
Lara: So, um, we speak German. We are from the German part of Switzerland. And we actually, we start to learn French at about nine years old. Yeah. Or 10 like in middle school.
Um, but most of us don’t speak it very well.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Lara: So normally you speak one or two languages. But not all of them.
Leong: So what, what is [00:02:00] life like then? Uh, we’ll go to Enya. Uh, what’s life like growing up, where you are? Where exactly is it to start off with?
Enya: It’s in the northeast of Switzerland, right at the lake of Constance.
We are right next to Austria. Like I’m there in like five minutes. Perfect. And yeah, Germany is just another like 20 minutes, 40 minutes, uh, with the car. Okay. Or train. And Liechtenstein is also really close.
Leong: Yeah.
Enya: France and Italy, you have about three hours to get there,
Leong: so, so is it regular, you know, that uh, people go on trips or family outings?
You go to different countries?
Enya: Yes. I have family in Austria and in Italy, so, right. Yeah, we go there pretty often.
Leong: Okay. But, but then what about language? Because, uh, you speak German, uh, German, Swiss, uh, so when you go to Italy, you speak Italian as well?
Lara: We, we [00:03:00] don’t speak Italian. Um, you can choose to study it in school if you want to.
Yeah, it’s an extra.
Leong: But both. Both. Your English is really good. Is English widely spoken in Switzerland?
Lara: Yes. Um, we start to learn it in school, I think at seven years old. And then after two years, French comes to it. So we learn, we actually speak three different languages in school.
Enya: Mm-hmm. Wow.
Lara: Yeah.
And also like we speak Swiss German, but when we are at school, everybody speaks German. Yeah.
Leong: Seems like landscape is, uh, would be quite amazing. Describe to me the landscape around where you live.
Enya: Yeah, there is a lot of trees, lakes. A lot of lakes.
Lara: Yes. Also the mountains.
Leong: Okay.
Enya: Yeah, it’s really beautiful.
Leong: And skiing, uh, I hear about skiing in, in Switzerland.
Lara: Yes. Um, Switzerland is quite a fan of skiing. I mean, we have so many mountains around us where we can go skiing, but it’s quite expensive, so, yeah.
Leong: Right. Okay. [00:04:00] So the ones who are not as rich can’t go to resort. Can you still ski?
Lara: Yeah, you can. When you are in school, we go skiing with the school.
Enya: Okay. Yeah.
Lara: So every child has the chance to go skiing if they want to. Okay. And if you don’t, there is also a program where you go like ice skating and different things like that.
Leong: So, so I’m in Australia. I ice skate. I used to be competitive ice dancer, but that’s a different story. So when you skate, you skate outside, right?
On the, the frozen lakes?
Lara: Uh, no, it’s like, um, ice, some indoor ice rinks. Yeah,
Enya (2): yeah, yeah. You can skate on some lakes like in the Engadine like Saint Moritz,
Leong: right? Mm-hmm. Why those lakes and, and not others?
Enya: The others don’t really freeze over in winter.
Leong: Okay. Yeah.
Enya: Like the lake of Constance, this one doesn’t freeze.
It’s too big
Leong: that that’ll be swimming then. It’s not skating. Yeah. Yeah.
Enya: There are people that do that.
Leong: What about [00:05:00] food? What’s food like?
Lara: Um, we have like some typical Swiss food, like that’s like. Cheese or fondue. Okay. Um, we are quite famous for that. Ah, yes, because the Swiss cheese and yeah. Also the Swiss chocolate I think.
Yeah. We have like 26 cantons. These are like the parts of Switzerland and like every part has like it’s special food.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. What about where you are besides the uh, the cheese? The chocolates?
Chocolates! I can see your face light up. With the chocolate.
Enya: Yeah. I love chocolate.
Lara: Um, where we are from, I think there’s like this sausage that we are quite from. Yeah, yeah. We are from St. Gallen and they call it the St. Galler Bratwurst,
Leong: Right.
Lara: And it’s quite funny because, um, uh, we always say. Don’t eat it with mustard because it’s too good for [00:06:00] them and the other parts of Switzerland fight with us about that, so, yeah.
Leong: Oh, right. Yeah. That sounds very yummy. Okay. When you two meet, are, were you in the same school?
Lara: We met at school, but um, the funny stories that we met a little bit before that. We went, both went to a special course where you, you learn how to train little kids. Okay. So we both met there and after that we went to the school and we’re like, ah, I know you.
Yeah.
Leong: How old were you when, uh, when you were doing that? Is it a school program for young kids or
Lara: No, you. Can do that in your free time if you want to be like a counselor in a camp or something. Okay. Yes. You can do that to train for it. Yeah.
Enya: Okay.
Leong: Yeah. Yes.
Lara: We were about 12 years old. Yeah.
Leong: Mm-hmm. That’s a great thing to, you know, pair 12 year olds with younger children.
So the [00:07:00] preparation for university, what, what happens? Yeah. How, how do you make your choices with, uh, going to university?
Lara: If you know you want to go to university, you have to know it really early because
Leong: How early?
Lara: Like it’s I think at 12.
Leong: 12,
Lara: yeah. Yeah. Wow. A young 12. Yes. Because you can go to this school, you have to go there for four years until you are 18.
Leong: Yeah.
Lara: And then you can go directly to university. And if you don’t do that, you have to make some quite more steps until you can do it. So that’s the easiest way.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yes. That’s quite early. So how did you find it? Did you know, uh, whether you wanted to go to university, I mean, both of you?
Lara: I wanted to, I always said, I am going to go there and I’m going to be, and I thought I’m was going to be a doctor.
Turns out I’m not. But I, I knew I wanted to study something, so,
Leong: yeah. Okay. So, is it just enrolling in a school?
Enya: [00:08:00] No. Are you like one year into high school? You, you decide? Yes. I, I want to go there. Okay. And then you prepare yourself for an entrance exam.
Leong: Oh, wow.
Enya: The test? Yeah, like a test on math. German, French, and English.
That you have to pass
Leong: Seems like a, a big decision and a lot of pressure that, was that how you felt?
Enya: Yeah. Challenging.
Leong: So is it just among those of you who wants to take it or are they, uh, private teachers or how do you, how do you prepare for an exam? So young,
Enya: our school didn’t really support us that much in going there.
Like we didn’t really have.
We had to study for this exam ourself.
Lara: In my school, it was like you had to choose a course next to [00:09:00] your normal timetable from school, and then you went like, uh, Wednesday afternoon for like two hours. For half a year and they prepped us. But that, that’s not in every school like that.
Enya: Yeah. I think we had like four times where we met up, like over at lunch.
Then we had like some prep exams. Yeah. Like we could ask the, the teacher some questions, like I wasn’t that much.
Leong: Okay. Is it the case that you have to study, uh, even if you’re going for a job, is that normal in Switzerland?
Lara: Yes. So we have, like in high school, we have like two levels, I think like the upper level and the lower level.
I mean, there are jobs you only can do if you are in the upper level. So the pressure is. On before you go to high school because everybody wants to get into the higher level and Okay. I mean, there are many [00:10:00] parents that want their children to go there, so Yeah. You have to study to get into the jobs.
Leong: So tell us what you chose and why you chose them.
Lara: So I’m going to be a teacher. I have to study three years for that. So first to sixth grade teacher and Okay. Um, I chose it because after the four years of this school, I didn’t know what I wanted to study, so I did like one year of working in a school where children with special needs go to, like children with autism or ADHD and things like that.
Leong: Okay.
Lara: And I really liked it there. And then I chose to get into teaching children. And after that I can also do like two more years, uh, while I’m working. And then I can also work with children with special needs.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. So, so you enjoy that. So working with children
Lara: Yes.
Leong: Yeah. Okay. That’s wonderful. So Enya?
Enya: I designed and study [00:11:00] geography. Because, yeah, I was always interested in like different countries, different cultures, what life is like in other parts of the world.
Leong: Yeah. Though you can see the, the map on your wall. So yeah, that’s it. You go to sleep dreaming of all these maps.
Enya: Yeah.
Leong: So, so where has that, uh, led you now?
So where are, are both of you now?
Lara: I’m starting my second year next week.
Leong: Okay. At university.
Lara: Yeah. They call it different in Switzerland. So I’m at the, Pädagogische Hochschule. There is not really an English name for it. It’s a special kind of university. Enya is at the actual university and they study like the subject.
Leong: Okay.
Lara: And where I am, I study the job..
Leong: But it’s a university degree.
Lara: Yeah, you get a bachelor from it,
Leong: and then from there you do teaching. Is that right?
Lara: Yes.
Leong: Mm. Okay. And, uh, Enya, so tell us where you are.
Enya: I finished like my second year at university and [00:12:00] now I will have two more years for my bachelor’s degree.
Leong: Is it normal for most courses to be four years?
Enya: No, like it’s three years, but because I work, I. Chose to do it for four years.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. Well then, uh, let’s talk about the difference experience between you. So, um, and yeah, you moving over to, to Bern and are you studying where you live? Uh, what’s the experience like? Um, have you two compared notes?
Lara: Yeah. I think the biggest difference is, first of all, that I’m still living at home with my parents and she lives in a dorm room.
Leong: Okay. And, yeah. Yeah. So let, let’s start with you. So moving away, uh, what was that like?
Enya: It was pretty easy for me, I think. Okay. I like getting away from home, but like, I also went back every weekend because I had to work.
Leong: Right. What do you [00:13:00] do?
Enya (2): I work with peoples with handicap, A facility where they live.
Leong: Hmm, wonderful. How does that contribute to your life working while you are studying and especially doing the work that you do?
Enya: It opened up other perspectives that I like didn’t have before I started working there.
Right, okay.
Like accessibility and stuff like that. Yeah, it was a really great experience. It still is like you learn a lot about, be more accepting you. You notice how. Much, those people are bit neglected in society. Mm-hmm.
Leong: Yeah. So, so currently you are traveling, uh, back home on the weekends in order to do that job.
Yes. And you plan to continue to do this throughout, uh, your third and fourth year? Yes.
Enya: Yes. I plan to do, because I mean, I have. To get money somehow.
Leong: Right. [00:14:00] Okay. Yeah. So I bring Lara in. Uh, so are, are you working?
Lara: Yes. I work at a shop where they sell costumes and clothes from the sixties.
Leong: Oh, wow. That that’s interesting.
Yeah, only from the sixties.
Lara: Yeah, it’s like a rockabilly style.
Leong: Oh, right. Is that very popular there? Do they have a lot of events with that theme?
Lara: We have like some car meetings with like the old American cars, US car meetings. Okay. And there are many people that come to our shop. They also come from Germany or like, uh, the other parts of Switzerland because there is like, no.
Shop like that near us. So yeah.
Leong: That’s very interesting. Yeah. Are you working to get extra money or is it actually uh, essential?
Lara: So for me it’s like I don’t want my parents to pay for everything I do because yeah. If you are in school, you don’t get any money for it.
Leong: Yeah. ‘
Lara: cause I work, I can like buy my own clothes [00:15:00] and things like that and go away with my friends yeah,
Enya: yeah, yeah. It’s the same for me. Like my parents were like, yeah, you should get a job because yeah, we won’t pay for everything.
Leong: Right, okay.
Enya: Like they pay for my accommodation and like the cost for studying there, the rest, the stuff I want to eat, clothes, vacation, I have to pay myself.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. This is very responsible. A lot of parts of Asia. The parents tell their kids to finish their university before they get a job, so they concentrate on on that, you know. What’s it like for you? Uh, the, what’s the cost of studying at the university for both of you?
Lara: In Switzerland, it’s really nice because in my degree I pay one thousand per year for the university and a little bit more for like books and things like that. But it’s just really, it’s not much. It’s like, uh, in Euros it’s nearly the same. So I mean, the rest gets paid by the government, so it would be much more.
Leong: Yeah,
Enya: Like in [00:16:00] Bern it’s about 800 Swiss Francs
Leong: So, so it’s, it’s not much, but it’s cost of living high.
Um, you feel the pressure to earn enough in order to pay for the things you want to buy?
Lara: So Switzerland is quite an expensive country, because of that, the salaries are also a little bit higher. But if you only do like a students job or something, you get around, but it’s not like you can’t go like out every weekend or under the week.
Yeah. So,
Leong: okay. Yeah. Is part of the earning, uh, to sustain the social life, uh, what’s social life like?
Enya: I mean, you, you meet up for like eating or drinks like most students, yeah. Parties are like on Thursdays.
Leong: Why Thursdays?
Enya: That’s just how it’s, I guess I, I wonder that too, because.
Lara: It’s funny because we have a saying, I don’t know if it’s for out of Switzerland, but they say.[00:17:00]
Uh, that Thursday is the ‘kleiner Freitag’ That’s like the small Friday,
Leong: Right?
Lara: So you, you go into Friday where you can drink much with a little bit of drinks.
Leong: Is social life very vibrant? At the university?
Lara: We have like a student organization in my, uh, university where they plan some different kinds of parties. Most of them are like in the city of St Gallen, so we have like 20 minutes per train to get there. But it’s really nice. There are like. I mean once a month.
Enya: Yeah.
Leong: What about bern? Um, how’s Bern different in terms of social life compared to where you came from?
Enya: It’s a big city, so obviously there is like more events. People are more open-minded. Um, yeah. Social.
Leong: What do you mean open-minded?
Enya: Yeah, we are from a more conservative part of Switzerland. And they are like more on the left side in [00:18:00] politics. And yeah, they’re just more laid back open to talk to other people and yeah.
Leong: Right.
Lara: Yeah. And maybe also we live like more on the countryside. Like we have many villages that are next to each other. And when you go out at the weekend, there are many different little festivals. You often go there. You don’t go to the city and go into bars, you go to a small village festival, you dance there and drink and eat there.
Leong: Do Swiss like to party?
Lara: I think so. I mean we have like Carnival in January and February and that lasts like for two months.
Leong: Okay. Too much?
Lara: Every weekend.
Leong: Okay. So, so for the both of you, you know, where, where do you hope to go from here?
Enya (2): I have to study another two years after those two years for my master’s degree because like just with the bachelor, like I wouldn’t find a job. So I have [00:19:00] four years to decide what I wanna do.
Really?
Leong: So Lara, then your, your future.
Lara: First of all, I just had to choose if I wanted to teach children from first to sixth grade or kindergarten to third. So I had to specialize from these two, and I’m going to go with four to six.
Leong: Okay.
Lara: And yeah, in two years, I will have to decide if I’m going to get the smaller ones or the bigger ones, and I think I’m going to have the small ones when they start school.
And yeah, I’m going to have my own class right after that. I’m excited about that, but also a little bit afraid because like then there are like 20 little humans there that I have to teach. And
yeah,
Leong: I mean, we can hear the excitement in your voice, but um, I can see your eyes light up as well as. So, okay.
So what’s your advice to students entering uni, uh, fresh, and, um, you [00:20:00] know, based on your experience, what do you think is the important things for them to know?
Enya: I think you shouldn’t work too much in your first year, and the students slack off, go to the lectures and do your homework and then everything will turn out fine.
Lara: For me it’s like, don’t worry too much before you go there because it’s never as hard as you believe it will be. And also sometimes you will get to the point where you think, oh no, why am I doing that? Or, oh, it’s really hard, especially before you have your exams, but just stick to it and try to do it. It works out so
Leong: well. It sounds like that came out of, uh, a lot of experience, so.
Alright, well I wanna thank the, the both of you. That’s very good advice that, uh, you gave and also sharing your experiences, you know, where you are from, what schooling and education is like in Switzerland. And I hope you [00:21:00] enjoyed the experience.
Enya: Yeah, thank you too.
Lara: It was really nice.
Leong: I am still wrapping my head around how early students in Switzerland have to make big decisions about their future, but Lara and Enya seems to be handling it well. Thanks for listening to Student Life Unplugged. If you’re new here, we’ve got a whole series of conversations with students from places like the UK, Ireland, Singapore, and Malaysia.
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends or anyone who’s starting their uni journey, and don’t forget to leave us a review. Catch you next time.
SLU S2 E4 – Mei Si and Yuvander – Singapore, Indonesia, UK transcript
Mei Si: [00:00:00] I think it’s important for patients to trust you. Like even in the first instance, when they see the way that you carry yourself, they decide whether you are someone that they trust. And I think that being in a position where you know that you don’t know a lot, it’s scary having to, yeah, still portray yourself as confident.
Leong: Welcome to Student Life Unplugged. Where young people from across the globe openly share their stories from family to friendships, to their studies and everything in between. In this episode, we’re heading to Indonesia and Singapore to meet Yuvander and Mei Si. Yuvander is originally from Java and currently studying on oncology in the UK while Mei Si is pursuing a degree in occupational therapy back home in Singapore.
Both identify themselves as introverts and they open up about navigating university life and their careers. Mei Si, despite liking to spend [00:01:00] time by herself by nature, is building a career, working a lot directly with therapy patients. While Yuvander who started in research is still open to roles involving more direct interaction with other people. I started by asking them, where is home for you?
Yuvander: So home is in Indonesia. I live in like in eastern part of Java. So that’s one of like the main islands in Indonesia. So I live in East Java. It’s got a small city, not gonna lie. So it’s not the same as like capital cities like London. It’s hot all, all year round. You get like monsoon season.
Leong: We, we can see the heat coming from
Yuvander: It is, it is, it’s, it’s, it’s straight on my face.
Yeah. Yeah, well I know my city is, it’s kind of like a student based city, so we have like a couple of universities that are quite known. So yeah, it’s just jammed everywhere that you go. Traffic everywhere, especially during [00:02:00] seasons where students are going to school.
Leong: Alright. Um, so, so Mei Si what is Singapore like?
Mei Si: Singapore is, I think quite similar to Indonesia is hot all the time. Now the weather is always humid. We’re getting a bit of rain.
Leong: What about food? Actually for both of you.
Yuvander: Food.
Leong: Yeah. Singapore and Indonesia is quite famous for food.
Yuvander: Oh yeah. Yeah. Singapore has very good food, I think. Yeah. Singapore, I’m just gonna mention it out there, Singapore, if anyone wants to study in Singapore.
Leong: How about you tell us about Singapore food that you know.
Yuvander: Right. It’s a blend of like multicultural people, right?
Mei Si: Yeah.
Yuvander: So in Singapore you can get a lot of like food from different countries, which is great. And um, they kind of like adjust it to how Singaporeans would like it to be. Yeah, you can get like Chinese food, Indian food, Malay, Malaysian food, dim sum is also great there. Yeah, I, yeah, food is just nonstop if you go to Singapore, I think. Okay.
Leong: Alright. Right. Mei Si, can you [00:03:00] confirm or or deny what, what Yuvander just said?
Mei Si: I think it’s true. I think many people come to Singapore for the food, but there’s always this competition between Singapore and Malaysian food about which one is better because we are so close to each other, but.
Actually Singaporean food in the recent years have been, I think some people would argue that it’s no longer as good as it used to be, because the government, they have this campaign called War on Diabetes. Like chronic conditions. We’re trying to prevent some of these things. So every, uh, Hawker store now, there’s always a healthier choice option.
And they have been trying to cut down on salt, sugar and, and oil in all the foods. Yeah. And even when you go to supermarkets now, all our drinks are rated on a nutrition level, but I think it’s true. We have a very diverse range of food over here. You can easily get Mexican food [00:04:00] or French food easily now. Yeah. So I think there’s very good options here.
Leong: That’s, that’s good. But Indonesia, then Yuvander so what, what’s food like there?
Yuvander: I think Indonesia, I think street food is very, very popular here. You know, different areas that have specialises in different food. For example, like the soup I ate today in my region it will be a bit saltier, but then if you go to central Java, a lot of it’s just more towards like sweet stuff.
Leong: Yuvander so you have experience then in UK. Well tell us about where you go to uni.
Yuvander: Yeah, of course. I, I went to University of Nottingham. I took pharmaceutical sciences for bachelor’s and I went on to take oncology for master’s.
Leong: Right, okay. But just to clarify then, for the audience, and even for me, what is oncology?
Yuvander: It’s a field of study for cancer. That’s literally it. Right? So any type of cancer and in general, so you can aim to be an oncologist, a clinician oncologist, right. Obviously if you wanna be a a doctor or you can aim [00:05:00] to become a researcher based in. Oncology. So cancer.
Leong: Well, can we start with just my understanding of why you went into the, uh, the subjects and the courses that you went into.
Yuvander: Growing up? I’ve always been, um, interested in science-based subjects because I was really sick as a kid growing up. As a reflection of what I experienced in childhood maybe I could do something related to healthcare. I decided to just work around somewhere that’s related to drug research, and then I found oncology very interesting because it’s, there seems to be no end of it. So lung cancer would’ve different treatments compared to like colorectal cancer and all that stuff.
So yeah, again, like very dynamic field and that’s why I dove into oncology.
Leong: Alright, well Mei Si?
Mei Si: So I study in Singapore Institute of Technology. I study occupational therapy. As OTs, what we do is we kind of just work with patients to help them to get back to [00:06:00] do meaningful activities. It’s like we are trying to find out what is meaningful to them and then work together with them.
We help them to be able to participate well in the things that they enjoy, be it, it, it can be like a role that they have, say for example their, uh, new mom and they want to be able to play with their, their kids. These are the things, meaningful activities that we help them to participate.
Leong: Okay.
Mei Si: I used to study nutrition, health and wellness. So we studied food and we also studied exercise like fitness in Polytechnique. And then for my internship, I actually interned at a place that did kidney dialysis. So, uh, the patients there had to do exercise and whatnot. So I worked a lot with, with the occupational therapist there. Okay. And I enjoyed the interaction with the patients. And I also felt that as a OT I, I felt that I could have more [00:07:00] impact on patient’s life compared to studying nutrition.
Leong: Right. Okay. So you like contact with people. What about you Yuvander? How much people contact is there in oncology?
Yuvander: I think research wise, you’re not in much contact with the patients unless you’re leading, um, a clinical trial. I am actually still debating whether I’m or wanna be a clinician or a researcher.
Leong: Okay.
Yuvander: Because growing up I’ve always been a quiet kid. I don’t really like talking to people. After university, that kind of changed in a way.
Leong: You’re doing really well.
Yuvander: Yeah. I know.
Leong: There’s a lot of talking we are doing.
Yuvander: The 12-year-old me wouldn’t be doing this. Yeah.
Leong: Okay. What, what is the scene like? You know, when you went to UK, was it a big contrast? Did you find things familiar or?
Yuvander: The way they do things is quite different, I think.
Leong: In what way?
Yuvander: In terms of socializing with people. So let’s say I see someone needing help Yeah. In Indonesia. Like it’s okay for you to just jump in and [00:08:00] try to help and that they’ll appreciate it. But then what I, I don’t know if it’s true, only my experiences, it’s better for you to ask first if they need help in the UK, stuff like that. I think people’s privacy in the UK, I’m not saying that Indonesians don’t really care about privacy, but like the privacy there is just set. This is something you shouldn’t cross.
Mei Si: Actually, I find the point Yuvander brought up very interesting, I never thought about it before, but in Singapore and Malaysia, right, they always talk about this spirit like the kampung spirit. Where like in the past when people used to live in areas where there is a sense of community there. You know, where neighbors are always very readily available for each other. Everyone calls each other family but right now in Singapore, actually, it’s nothing like that anymore. Like even though we are so densely populated and we stay so closely with one another, actually most of the times, all of us, we don’t know our [00:09:00] neighbours.
I feel like now we are very individualised. In life many of us, we just work to make ourselves better. We don’t really stop as much to look out for people and to ask if they need help anymore compared to the past where like, yeah, I, I think that sense of community was a lot stronger and I feel a bit of this comes from, now we are very influenced by social media.
I feel like people speak up about their rights a lot and like sometimes, like even a good act by someone, a kind act, can be taken in the wrong context, and then everyone, there’s like a big hoo-ha people get upset about it. And I feel that that creates a sense of fear for people to step up to help each other.
Now I think we’ll be more weary, like we will ask, oh, do you need anything? Instead of, you know, coming straight in their face and trying to help them.
Leong: Yeah. And, and you see this reflected in [00:10:00] student life as well. Your interaction with other students?
Mei Si: Yes. Recently I went for clinical attachment. My supervisor is about 10 years older than me, and she was asking me what school is like, whether I interact with, say seniors, for example, when I need help with schoolwork and I was telling her that we don’t interact with each other at all. And I think she was quite shocked to hear that because in the past. Seniors will always have touch base with juniors, um, to, to help them in schoolwork. But now all of us just live our separate lives. Yeah.
Leong: How does, uh, friends and family feature in your, your studies? How important are they?
Yuvander: I had a friend with me that come along for university, so that kind of helps with, um, socialising with more people. Yeah, I was literally like very, very quiet, so I didn’t really like going out. But then this guy on the other hand, he’s more like the people person. So he dragged me out for socials and I’m like, no, I don’t [00:11:00] wanna go. But then he was like, just go, man. There’s nothing wrong with it. So I did go eventually, and I think that’s what helped um, me a lot with being able to socialise with people. It’s like kind of like extroverts picking up a, like a random introvert in the, in the public and then just making them their friends.
But then right when he left, ’cause he decided to continue working while I decided to go for a master’s um, that’s where I was alone.
Leong: Okay.
Yuvander: The first time I joined, um, like a so social meeting alone was when I was in my first year of Master’s. And then I found out that being away from home doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re not in home.
Leong: Can you elaborate?
Yuvander: If you develop like your hobbies in another country and also a society that you feel comfortable living in. It helps with coping with like, uh, if someone is, um, feeling homesick or something.
Leong: Yeah. You feel homesick.
Yuvander: Um, not really. Okay. Yeah, I found a routine to do in the uk. I, I have like, set [00:12:00] days for gym.
If not as gym, I’ll be doing sport. Being busy with something that you enjoy helps with homesickness.
Leong: Mm. So, so Mei Si obviously you’re not homesick ’cause you’re home, but the, you know, the influence of friends and making friends and family of course that you are with um, how’s that impact on your studies?
Mei Si: Uh, I mean, I’m, I’m very close to my family. Anything in school, I, it’s a very safe space for me to talk about it. So that one has been a consistent thing since I was young. But in terms of friendships, it has kind of changed over the years. I think over the years, um, I’m, uh, more reserved person also. So for most of my life, actually, I stick to one person, like I only need one friend in the whole school and then I can survive through, um, yeah, through the whole year. So I think up until I was 16, actually, I would usually only stay with one friend. But when I entered into Poly and University there [00:13:00] were opportunities for me to interact more with people ’cause of like group projects. There weren’t really no choice have to interact with people. Yeah. So I think now when I enter into uni, I definitely have a bigger friend group, but probably not hang out too long and not share like the deeper stuff.
Leong: Well, that’s interesting because, um, just comparing like Yuvander, he said that he, uh, likes to be by himself mostly, so he chose a work that’s that but you chose to be a clinician and you chose to have contact with people. Can I get you to elaborate on that, that you chose a ‘people work’ and you seem to enjoy that, but then you’d like not to have too much contact on personal and social side.
Mei Si: Interacting with, with patients actually there is a part of me that still struggle with it. Like I don’t feel a hundred percent comfortable with that. But I think what really drives me is I feel like I’m some, [00:14:00] I’m someone with a lot of empathy and I, I’m curious about people. I think asking questions is hard. Getting to know new people is hard for me. It just takes time to be comfortable with it. It’s not that I’m not interested in people. Exposure definitely has been helping me be a lot more comfortable with people and be a bit more myself with them as well.
Leong: Yeah. Okay. Yuvander did you have times when you needed, your parents? Like did your parents ever visit you in the uk?
Yuvander: Oh yeah, that was when I was in, so I had like a kind of like a major injury after the gym and I was in the hospital for three months. So my parents came, on an emergency visa. Then they were there for like, I think I stayed three or more months after being discharged from hospital.
Leong: Right. Did the university, um, help?
Yuvander: Oh yeah. They were, they were very helpful. So I had my friend with me at that time. I asked for help to email my course director. [00:15:00] And as soon as she heard the message, like the day after she called me and I was like, just to see how I was doing, and then she was telling me, oh, that’s, it’s, it’s completely okay. You know, you don’t have to worry about university i’ll help take care of it for you. And then when my parents came overly, as it was in short notice, the university gave us options for accommodations within the university.
So yeah, they were very supportive of what happened. Upon the time that they weren’t there. I was very, very grateful that, you know, I made friends with a couple of people there. So there’s like this group of Indonesian students there, Indonesian Society in the UK and they were the ones who helped me if I needed anything.
’cause you know, obviously being in hospital was not really fun ’cause they were like in contact with me, like, do you need anything? Um, do you need any help? Stuff like that. ’cause I can’t imagine if I was alone, you know, in another country, and sick.
Leong: Mm-hmm. Mei Si what’s, um, the Polytechnique like in terms of support for you?
Mei Si: For me, actually, I didn’t really have a lot of [00:16:00] very serious, uh, emergencies, but I know of friends that had to take a leave of absence for a trimester. Yeah, the Profs are all very available to, to support us in that area. Um, for myself, actually, there, there was this period where I was struggling a bit in school. At that point. I had my first clinical attachment with a hospital and the supervisor that I had then was, she was quite, um, she just wasn’t a, a, a good fit for me. I wouldn’t say she’s a bad supervisor, but I think, uh, she said some things that were, I, I feel like it hurt me quite personally. Yeah. And I was with her for seven weeks, so we had to work together for the seven weeks and after that whole season, I think I came out of it feeling quite discouraged about whether, you know, this is a course that is fit for me, so my school [00:17:00] provide counseling services for students. Yeah. So that was the kind of support that I reached out for. I think the school is supportive, you know, whether is it a physical, um, injury, whether is it even mental struggles that the school does come in to support students?
Yeah. The whole university experience for me in the first year was very tough. And so like the, the people that I went to for this was my family, who also, um, I mean, they gave me advice for, for what I was going through, but most importantly, I feel like they just pushed me to, to persevere in it a bit more because I feel that like sometimes things are tough in that moment, but it doesn’t stay that way forever. So I think I just really needed that mental support to just persevere for a little bit more, you know, and things turned out okay at the end, which I’m glad that I didn’t make any impulsive decision to, you know, not continue my course or, or [00:18:00] anything.
Yuvander: Yeah. Okay. That’s just a very common problem with a lots of students actually.
Mei Si: Yeah.
Yuvander: Especially second year is probably like one of the toughest. You can go through.
Leong: Oh, why do you say that?
Yuvander: I think it’s just a common, uh, occurrence that all of students are like, you know, what, am I taking the correct course? Why is this so hard? Why do I, why do I feel like I’m, I fit with this course?
But then if you, the best advice that I heard at that time was like, remember the first reason why you want to be there. Because very, very tough moments where you’re like, we’re packed with so much schedule, so much deadlines. It ruins your decision making in a way. Like you start to make impulsive decisions how Mei Si was talking about and yeah, having like that grounded support from the people around you saying that, you know, just persevered through it and then see what has, what’s gonna happen after that.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And both of you, do you have concerns are going into work?
Mei Si: I think one of the things that I’m worried about is actually just carrying myself, uh, with [00:19:00] professional. To patients because I think uni prepares us for work, but sometimes it feels not enough. Because there are many skills that you know, you actually learn while you are there. Like on the job, you will learn it. Any healthcare role, like I think it’s important for patients to trust you. And patient decide whether they wanna trust you like even in the first instance, when they see the way that you carry yourself, they decide whether you are someone that they trust.
And I think that being in a position where you know that you don’t know a lot, it’s scary having to Yeah. Still, uh, portray yourself as confident. Yeah. Like, you know what you are doing, but at the same time, yeah. You still have a lot of things to learn. I think that’s something that I feel concerned and I, I feel worried about.
Leong: Yeah. Do, do you approach people about those? Do you know where, where are you going to learn those, uh, skills?
Mei Si: I think everyone says that it is normal to experience this in the first year, [00:20:00] and it’s not just in the clinical setting as well. I think it is in every industry like that you go to, people expect you as a working adult to know what you are doing because people pay you to work. Yeah. But I think a lot of times we, I mean, as a fresh grad, we don’t really know what we are doing yet, so I think it’s a common experience. Everyone says just give it one year for you to settle in. Right.
Leong: Yeah. Then does uh, practical placements help?
Mei Si: Uh, yeah, for sure. I think it does because when we are out in clinical setting, we actually have a uniform that shows that we are students. So I feel patients are a bit more like gracious to us. You know, like when we approach them and we have someone, our supervisor is watching us 24 7, so we feel assured to try things out. Yeah. As well. Yeah.
Leong: Okay. Yeah. Yuvander moving [00:21:00] from studies into work, uh, do you have concerns, you know, how do you approach it?
Yuvander: Everywhere you go, you’re just gonna have these concerns. Right. And sometimes like you just have to do it to know which one is actually the worst and the best part of being in the job. Like, is this the correct, the correct country that I’m choosing? Like that also occurs again when you’re doing work. Am like really going to commit myself in this field of work?
You know, like life will take you there.
Leong: Okay. Well then, then I’d like to, uh, actually ask you a last question that’s related to that, which is put yourself back into the beginning of first year. Um, what advice would you have having gone through that for somebody that’s starting out, you know, first year uni, uh, in the, uh, in the subject that you are doing, what advice would you give them?
Mei Si: Just be open to explore your strengths and your weakness. Because I think sometimes there’s this expectation that we put on ourself to be good at everything and or to be good at everything at the first try, and that is just really not the [00:22:00] case. At all. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of comparison with schoolmates or with classmates a lot of the time.
But I think all of us, we just have different, there are different modules that I excel in and there are other modules that my friends excel in. Yeah. So just be patient to discover what are your strengths and your weakness, and I think it is normal for anyone to have weakness, but we can always get better at those things. Like school is always a very safe place.
Leong: Yeah, that’s, that’s a good advice for somebody to be in the study environment. Yuvander?
Yuvander: I think the common ground is that. I think socialise, guys, you know, socialise, have a bit of a feel of the new environment. You know, you’re, it’s, it’s a first year, it’s time for you to adapt and kind of like get out of your comfort zone..
It’s very important that you find the balance between studying and having leisure time as well. You know, have fun. Have fun.
Leong: Okay. No, that, that’s a good note to end on, which is to, to have fun.[00:23:00]
We often hear about the challenges introverted students face as they transition to university, so it’s inspiring to speak to two people who aren’t letting that hold them back. Thanks for tuning into Student Life Unplugged. If you’re new here, we have an entire series of conversations with students from across the world, from Australia to the UK, to Mexico, to Philippines, and much more.
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends or anyone starting out on the university journey. Don’t forget to leave us a review. Catch you in the next episode.
SLU S2 E5 Abishek and Nila – India transcript
Nila: [00:00:00] There’s a phrase Daal Chawal that means lentils and rice. So that is our basic food, and that is a go-to food, which is healthy, tasty and easy to make, and we can’t live without it.
Leong: And you learned that from parents, from mom, especially
Nila: Cooking is not my expertise, no.
Leong: Okay,
Abishek: Because she don’t have to move away from parents.
Nila: I have the privilege, I have the privilege.
Abishek: Need. Is the mother of invention kind of, yes. Okay.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from their studies and dreams to their family and friends. This week’s podcast, I speak to Nila and Abishek from India. Nila lives in Calcutta and she’s studying English literature.
While Abishek is from New Delhi, but is currently doing a PhD in cancer research in Ireland. They both defy common stereotypes for [00:01:00] instance, Nila is not much into cooking even though she comes from a society that traditionally women has been in the kitchen while Abishek has no choice but to learn how to cook studying overseas away from home. They talk openly about India’s very rich and deep family values.
At the same time, they both advocate for change to improve education and equality. At first, ask them about the parts of India that they both live in.
Nila: I grew up. In West Bengal, though the name is West, it is actually in eastern part of India. I didn’t feel that it is a third world country until I was grown up.
So my childhood is pretty good. Uh, my. High school life is pretty good then, then came the reality. It hit and yeah, things are a little complicated, but not bad. I think the whole culture of India is very family oriented and West Bengal doesn’t differ from that. It is same actually. I’m still living with my [00:02:00] parents. I think this is pretty different from the first world countries. Okay.
Abishek: My hometown is near New Delhi, so if you go northeast from New Delhi after 50 kilometer there is my hometown. It’s called Baraut. In India, we have 28 different estates. So my state is named Uttar Pradesh, and as she mentioned, her estate name is West Bengal.
Geographically, there is differences, obviously. So West Bengal, uh, has mostly the banks, river banks, and uh, New Delhi is mostly the plainer areas like the foothills of Himalayas. And then there is linguistic differences. There are some words which are common in Nila’s mother tongue and my mother tongue.
’cause the origin is same but otherwise, uh, there is some linguistic differences.
Leong: Okay?
Nila: Way too many languages. We have way too many, 23 or 24 are probably given the status of a proper language. And there are more dialects
Abishek: [00:03:00] and there are more regional dialects.
Nila: Yeah, there are so many varieties. Even if I go a hundred kilometers from my place, there will be a different dialect.
That is the same language. I speak Bengali, but the dialect is so difficult that I can’t, uh, comprehend whatever the other person is saying.
Leong: Right?
Abishek: Yeah. I mean, if you move north to south or from east to west, there will be different languages. There is like the capital region, most people speak Hindi there, but there are like other state languages like Hindi, Haryanvi, Punjabi, Rajasthani but it’s still, they understand each other.
But as you go down, there is again, uh, different languages. And they cannot understand each other.
Leong: Wow. Okay. What language do you speak?
Abishek: I speak Hindi, but I can understand few, uh, northern languages like Punjabi, Haryanvi, Rajasthani.
Leong: Right. So both of you, if you don’t use English, can you speak to each other
Abishek: if she understands a bit of Hindi.
Nila: I understand Hindi completely. I can speak Hindi, I can speak three languages. Bengali my mother tongue, uh, [00:04:00] Hindi, which is sort of India’s national language.
Abishek: It is not.
Nila: Uh, yes, I know it is not written anywhere, but sort of, and then there’s English this way. I know.
Leong: So, so can you say something to each other in Hindi?
I mean for the audience?
Nila: Yes.
Leong: And tell us what you’re saying.
Nila: Okay. Okay.
(both speak in Hindi)
Leong: Okay, so, so what did you tell each other? Well, one thing I noticed is that the pace is, is very fast. Compared to when we are speaking normally in English. But your Hindi, it, it, it goes very fast.
Abishek: Okay. Yes. So what you said was like, I know Hindi because I’m teaching and, uh. And then I say, okay, I didn’t know if you know Hindi or otherwise.
I, I would’ve spoken to you in Hindi.
Nila: Yes.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah. So is, is that something normal, uh, if you beat somebody else who’s Indian, that you would fall back [00:05:00] on an, an Indian language, or you normally just use English these days?
Nila: No, actually we, we basically, if we do the northern part, we mainly speak Hindi.
I may introduce in English or in Hindi first, I’ll go with Hindi. And if I see that the, the, the person’s from Southern part, he cannot understanding me at all. I will go to English.
Leong: Right. Okay. That’s, that’s a good mix. Uh, tell me more about being family oriented. You know, what you see as different from, uh, from first world countries.
Nila: For me, I’m at home, as you can see, so that I’m family oriented in differences. Like wherever we will go, we’ll go back to the family so that’s the point. Even if, if some son or daughter, uh, are going abroad, they’re still coming back and they’re sometimes living with the family and not a hundred percent, still it is around 60%.
Leong: What, what do you think, Abishek, is that your similar experience to you?
Abishek: Yeah. So we all are very family oriented. Even after our school life, we were living in a hostel. Yeah. But every now and then [00:06:00] we were visiting back, back to home, or our family members coming to visit us. Yeah. And like I get in touch with my family, uh, every day, like with my parents telling them, what was the story today?
What happened? Okay. Or they, they went to some family function or some gathering. So the, they keep feeding me, or I I’m keep feeding them. Yeah. Whenever, like I’m visiting them, they giving me so many stuff. I’m like, okay, my mother cooked this. Or they gave me this thing.
Leong: Okay. Well, you talk about cooking so Indian food is world famous, but tell me about your home. Uh, uh, Indian food that’s very specific to your area.
Abishek: Yeah. For cooking is definitely. Again, an important part of our life. Yeah. What I do cook here is all from my mother like what I learned at home. Yeah. She know. Okay, after a certain point of time, I’ll be leaving home or there will be some situations, so she prepared me. Okay. So the basic regime is there will be a curry in form of and there could be [00:07:00] any meat portion, any lentils, and the other portion will be either you had rice or you had breads. Yeah. Like you know, the chapati form or the naan. People would, will relate from the naan more.
Nila: Yes.
Abishek: People know Nan better than a chapati or another, right?
Nila: Yes. Yeah.
Abishek: So these will be the, the basic thing, this you can do whatever experiment or whatever spices you want to add. This will be the whole thing.
Nila: Actually what you said, there is a phrase daal chawal that means lentils and rice. Okay. So that is our basic food, and that is a go-to food, which is healthy, tasty and easy to make and I can’t live without it.
Leong: And you learned that from parents, from mom especially.
Nila: I know just only little cooking is not my great expertise. Not what do I.
Abishek: Because she don’t have to move from away from parents.
Nila: I have no privilege. I have no privilege.
Abishek: Need is the mother of invention kind of thing.
Leong: Right. Okay.
Abishek: I, I needed, so I need to learn it.
Leong: Abishek, did you know how to cook before you arrived? You are in, uh, in Ireland [00:08:00] now, or you actually called your mom after you moved to learn from her?
Abishek: Mm-hmm. No, actually, uh, she pulled me whenever she was cooking, so just to show me bit by bit. So sometimes you’re like, okay, let’s show you how to cook this or how to do this part.
So all that was in my mind.
Leong: Yeah. Is it normal for boys to learn, uh, how to cook?
Abishek: Um, no. Okay. But nowadays, I know all my friends, they don’t cooking. Because they’re all living away from parents, but back then during my father generation, they don’t know. Still they don’t know.
Leong: Right. Okay. Then on the flip side, is there pressure for girls to learn, you know, home, cooking and, and being able to, to manage the home?
Nila: Actually, yes, there is. But I would also like to mention the nuances as well. As a girl, there are certain sort of expectations, but, uh, if you are living by the expectations of society, if you are like, you know, just, uh, maybe graduation or secondary education, then you are getting married. Then you [00:09:00] have to abide by the expectation somehow.
But if you dream high, if you try to establish yourself, then you have to reject some. For me, I follow some rules of my family. I reject some because I think those are not that important, and those are somehow harming myself. Cooking is a survival skill. If you need to survive, you have to learn cooking. But the society is not like that. It is, we’re just a girl. You have to learn it. You have to take care of family. So it’s not like we follow everything. It’s not like we reject everything. It’s a somewhere in between. Yes.
Leong: Alright, well let’s, uh, get to your study. So, uh, let’s start with your early schooling. You know, what was early schooling like for, uh, for the both of you
Abishek: Until high school it was fun and as soon as high school was over life, life get better.
Leong: Right. Why said, why do you say that?
Abishek: Coming from a, a small town society was more focused on how much marks you got rather than how many skills you have.
Like, [00:10:00] can you play football, can you play rugby? Can you play other different sports?
Nila: Yes.
Leong: Uh, the same for you, Nila?
Nila: Uh, yes, actually. I mean, I’m also small town girl, so yes. I would also emphasise on extracurricular activities more because every child has different, uh, field in which they can bloom, but the societies only focused on study.
I know study is important and, and a basic education is really important. We can’t deny it, but, uh, the exposure that every field deserves, like, you know, dancing, singing, playing, okay, or doing craft. Uh, that is also a talent, right? But it is changing. They are learning different type of methods and also karate, dancing, singing, football, cricket, even in a small town like ours, which was not possible during my childhood.
Abishek: Yeah. Society looked down on you. Like when you start doing those stuff, I mean, until you are eight years old, you’re dancing and they will be happy for you, but you crossed the mark of 10. [00:11:00] Uh, okay, now focus on studies.
Nila: Yes. And actually I don’t blame completely on the society because if you are focusing on singing and if you cannot make a, a career out of it, uh, it seems pointless to the society, which to some extent is true as well.
I mean, if you don’t have a good, very good backup, uh, family support, or if your father is not that wealthy enough then you have to do something, job, business or anything. So if you are just focusing on something, you have to be very good at it and you have to make a career out of it. Uh,
Abishek: no, I’m, I mean, I’m not totally agreed with her.
Nila: Okay.
Abishek: The reason being doing extracurricular thing is not to get a job. The point is to get a creative mind.
Nila: Yes.
Abishek: So that you can put that mind. Do your job, whatever you do, or if you’re doing some other activities and your regular job isn’t going good, those activities help you to move through that phase.
Yes, that that makes sense. Yeah.
Leong: So, so your choices, um, the, what, what did you end up choosing, you know, as you [00:12:00] were getting into high school? Uh, what, what led you to where you are now and where are you now?
Abishek: Uh, I chose the science with biology. It was fascinating for me. I was like, okay, let’s see where biology will take me.
Our teacher motivated us to prepare for the medical entrance. It’s like a pre-medical exam where people sit for it whosoever wants to become doctor like or dentist or all those streams. So I tried to crack it for three years after my senior secondary school, so that was my three year gap. I have seen some improvements every year that I was hoping, okay, I will make it, but I couldn’t make it anyway.
Then I was like, okay. I wanted to explore where research is ongoing. I like anatomy, I like biotechnology, so I was like, okay, let’s choose biotechnology.
Leong: So we’ll get to the later stages with Abishek. But, uh, Nila, what was your choices, uh, when [00:13:00] you were doing your studies?
Nila: When I entered college, I, I chose English literature for my, uh, graduation subject.
And I’m happy and I’m really glad and I love English literature a lot, uh, many theories as well, so. I’m somehow happy that I can read history. We also need to know a little about geography, not cartography. I would say not geography as the land and see cartography and also about politics. So I’m getting a sense of those, so I’m happy about it.
Leong: What will make you choose English literature?
Nila: I chose English literature because of two things. One is I was good at English. Because till our 12th grade, it was only grammar and not much of literature. So I, I was good at grammar, I got good marks. Uh, so because of that, and secondly, English as a language is a global language.
Okay. Okay. So there’s job opportunity as well. So I, I thought I’m insecured. That somehow it became my lighthouse for the life that I’m dreaming of right now.
Leong: So, so what is your dream? Uh, what kind of career do you see for yourself?
Nila: I want to be a professor. And [00:14:00] also do research. That is my dream.
Leong: Yeah okay. Um, I’d like to find out both of you, you know, about your research. So, uh, Abishek to get to your story. How did you end up where you are now?
Abishek: So what I realised was that the research is required in this field, but in India there’s not much opportunities. I start looking for other options for abroad In Ireland, I was looking for course called regenerative biology.
Leong: Okay, what is that?
Abishek: So it’s like a unconventional field where disease or other injuries can be treated using the stem cells. So stem cells are those cells in your body, which produce all different type of cells. And in Ireland there was only Galway where I, I found the subject, so I was like, okay, I’m gonna go here.
So I completed my master’s two years back. Then during my master’s, I found one module where [00:15:00] there was a link between cancer treatment and usage of regenerative powers and my eye called this project where I am in now. So it is about treating tumors using your bodily cells, which can be rejuvenated.
Once taken out from patient body and they can be rejuvenated, they can be modified and put it back into the patient and the cancer can be treated.
Leong: Wow. So it sounds very important, but I’d like to bring Nila in because compared to yours, obviously it’s, it’s very different, but you know, you know, just as fascinating.
Tell us about your research. You know, what is your focus area, you know, what do you hope to achieve from that?
Nila: Yes, I haven’t, I haven’t started, I mean, I, I have few topics in my mind. Uh, one is, uh, queer studies, which it’s in the social science as well. It is there in English literature as well. So all the Stonewall Riot and everything about those LGBTQ plus community and everything that happened way back, but still in, in [00:16:00] present, where is evolving in a new way.
So I would like to talk about it. Though I myself is not a part of LGBT community in that way but if you say that queer, which means something that doesn’t follow the, uh, society bound categories, then yeah. I am queer because I don’t actually believe all the traditions I told you. I mean, okay.
In India, there’s like idea and not in India. It’s like, oh, global idea that marriage is for procreation and all those. I don’t believe in that as well. I mean, that is not the primary focus of any marriage or anything. Also about the female should not work and all. I don’t believe in those at all. Yeah. If we think of it that way, then I am also queer and I also have many friends who are from L-G-B-T-Q community, so I would like to talk about them.
Their are problems through literature and also another topic I have thought of Dalit literature. The Dalit means, the people marginalized. So their voices coming out in recent years, and I would like to talk about those. I mean, I’m [00:17:00] not a Dalit by cast. Fortunately, casteism is not that much in West Bengal or not at all but in other parts of India, casteism was like once, it was way too much. I mean, so cruel. It sometimes makes me feel really, really sad that people did something just because of utterly shocking. So their voice is now coming out, but still that is complicated and there are nuances. And also maybe if not this too, then a different aspect of feminism. I mean, feminism has been there for what? 19th century it started, but it, it changed with every wave there is change and there are layers. I mean, at first we thought that we are not working and we don’t have jobs. We are not getting money, we are not getting freedom. But now we have it, but still are we that free?
Leong: So it’s, it’s fascinating. I mean, first listening to you talk about a lot of these very very deep social issues, you know, L-G-B-T-Q and marginalized cast system, feminism and I see that Abishek, uh, nodding your head when, when [00:18:00] you listen to all this, so Abishek, what’s your experience with, you know, these social issues?
Abishek: How many they are there, like the government trying to remove those things and providing facilities for the socially underprivileged, but still these type of issues can be resolved if individually people take those things in hand. I would say my family, maybe there were some issues before, like very, very few.
The thing is now, if I see something like this. I correct my parents.
Nila: Yes.
Abishek: Yeah. So I try to prevent it at my individual level.
Nila: What you said is very important that our parents, we can’t blame them as well. Yeah. They are the product of society. We’re also the product of society. Yeah. Uh, in my childhood, my mother used to say, whenever I used to do something, you know I wanted to be a scientist once.
So I used to ask reason for everything. She used to say, I don’t know, because my parents said that’s why I, I maintained whatever they said. I, I agreed to them. But I said, [00:19:00] no, that is not the reason. Give me a reason, then I’ll listen to you. So that was then. But now, uh, when I tell my mother even about the, I will tell her about feminism, when I tell my mother that these are the issues and things like this, and now she thinks, and now she says that right.
Women are not given that space. Only If you are educated enough and you are earning enough, you have a voice otherwise your voice is not heard. Only if you have education and have money. So now my parents listen to me a little and they try their best and it’s not like I can change them completely, but yes that is what you said, individual level.
Leong: What, what is it like right now if you are in the L-G-B-T-Q community for instance, or you are in the low class system?
Nila: Yeah. In my region it’s like I never seen cast casteism or religion biasness. No. I have Muslim friends, I have, uh, friends from lower cast. I am, I, I am, I mean, I’m hesitating to use the word lower cast as well.
I never thought what cast there are when I had friends, so that is very good here. About L-G-B-T-Q. I [00:20:00] didn’t know something like this existed until I was 19. Just came through internet and I was seeing so many a boy, loving a boy, love girl, loving a girl. That is the basics now I know the answer, but at that time I felt like, uh, okay.
Okay. But, but now, nowadays the movements are growing and our court, uh, India Supreme Court, it has given the rights. Like not allowed, completely complete everything to the LGBTQ people, but it has given them some rights. If a parent finds that their son or daughter is gay or lesbian or bisexual, pansexual, anything.
If the parents are supportive, great. If the parents are not supportive, sometimes they are also driven out of their home. About the castism it’s a little better, I would say. But the LGBTQ is still very much underwater.
Leong: I, I can hear music what’s that? Is that a chant from
Nila: Yeah. Namas that is the Muslim chant.
Abishek: Adhan
Nila: yeah. Adhan, yes adhan.
Leong: Very culturally rich sound that’s coming from Nila, your background. ’cause we can hear the traffic noise [00:21:00] also but I, I’d like to wrap up just to ask the both of you for advice that you would give to new students that are either following your footsteps, Abishek and, and going overseas, or Nila going in, in your footsteps?
Abishek: Um, I would say before starting uni, there is still one more step. Decide what you allowed to do rather than what’s growing in the market. Okay. That’s one thing. Just try to follow your instinct. Okay. I’m good at arts, or I’m good at biology, i’m good at mathematics. Doesn’t matter what the market structure look like.
If you’re good at something, you will found your place, you will found your ways through it, and you will be a good human being by doing that thing. ’cause you know you will be living your life your way and reaching your goal whenever your time will come.
Leong: Yeah, that, that’s really good one being, uh, you be a good human being.
I think that’s a very key statement. All [00:22:00] right. Nila.
Nila: Yes. Doing something for money is like, okay, that actually exhausts us, uh, doing something just for the sake of money. But if we, we love this, it makes us feel a lot happier and it just motivates us to do more.
Leong: Yeah,
Nila: my advice would be that. Don’t ever feel that you cannot do better right now. Maybe you have a lot of backlogs. You need to do a lot of study, but don’t ever feel that I cannot learn again. Because when the COVID was going on, I was doing my graduation at that time that I didn’t study much because it was COVID time everything was online and classes and we are little couch potatoes most of us.
So I, after that, when I enrolled in Masters, I felt oh my God I don’t know so many things, but then I mastered all those within the first semester of mine, and from the second semester, the journey was a lot more smooth for me. So [00:23:00] that’s what I learned, that if you decide. That I need to do it now, then start doing it.
Don’t feel that I haven’t done it, so I won’t be able to do it ever. No, just right now. Start it and you’ll be able to achieve it.
Leong: Well, thank you for, for both of you, for your advice and for the insights that you’ve given. Wish you the best for your future, for the very important work that, uh, Abishek, that you’re doing certainly in research and also the very important areas that Nila you’re hoping to get into.
Nila: Thanks for having me.
Abishek: Thanks.
Leong: What a joy it was to speak to Nila and Abishek. It’s amazing to be able to dip into the details of their lives and their cultures. I love the passion they both have for two totally different chosen fields. Thank you for tuning into Student Life Unplugged. If you just found us, make sure you go back and listen to Series One where we have students from the UK, Japan, [00:24:00] Singapore, Malaysia, and more.
And if you enjoyed what you’ve heard, please share it with your friends or anyone who’s in the Uni journey. Don’t forget to follow the show and I’ll catch you in the next episode.
SLU S2 E6 Ivan and Polina – Russia, Spain, Bulgaria transcript
Polina: [00:00:00] If like a boy serves in the army, they can force, you know, him to sign a contract to go to Ukraine.
Ivan: And I’ve got some friends of mine who are very scared about their studies because if you do not finish the university or if you are not currently studying in one, there is a high chance of you actually being forced to go to the army.
Polina: That’s why men like leave so that they don’t have to go to Ukraine.
Leong: Hi, and welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from their families and friends to their studies and their dreams. In this week’s podcast, I speak to Ivan and Polina, both from Russia, but standing away in Spain and Bulgaria.
In the conversation we discussed the ongoing war between Russia and the Ukraine, and why studying abroad was better for them. Ivan moved to Spain before the war, [00:01:00] but now cannot return for fear of being drafted. In Russia, or young men between the ages of 18 and 30 can be called to serve one year in the army if they’re not in uni or in specific lines of work.
Polina chose to study in Bulgaria as it would be more difficult to work abroad with a Russian degree. We also delve into Russia’s traditions, food and its people, why family is very important and how the focus for most young people in Russia is study and sports. I started by asking Ivan about his home city, Moscow.
Ivan: Moscow’s quite nice, actually, it’s a very huge city. A lot of stuff going on. Very fast pace of life. People are quite busy. You know, like when you enter Metro, there’s always somebody running somewhere. Everybody’s running late and [00:02:00] like, for example, compared to Spain, where I’m right now, I avoid a big difference because I’m in Madrid but it feels so nice and relaxed here.
Leong: Mm.
Ivan: Compared for example, compared with Europe, I think they’re like a little bit more closed.
Leong: Mm. So we all see in Kremlin, Moscow’s buildings are quite unique. Is it that style of, of architecture?
Ivan: Yeah. Yeah. Like the city centre is a little bit more of like 18th century.
You’ve got a lot of, um, antique houses, uh, like a little bit smaller, maybe five stores. But when you go outside of the city center. Uh, there has been like a lot of impact made by the Soviet Union, and you’ve got those like monumental structures, you know, on the typical houses and the big ones, and you can see the difference when you’re going from one part from another.
And you can see the difference in the history of the city.
Leong: Okay. So Polina, where are you from? Is, uh, is life similar to what Yvan described in Moscow?
Polina: [00:03:00] Uh, I mean, I’m from Ulyanovsk, so it’s like the city, kind of in the European side under Moscow, and it’s on Volga River and it has about like, uh, about 700,000 people overall.
But the thing about Russia is that. Usually people from like big states, big cities, they don’t really know about the, you know, a lot about the regions. So
Ivan: It is true
Polina: I’ve never met like a person from Moscow who knows about my town, but like my city know it’s bigger than a lot of European cities, you know?
Leong: Why do you tell Ivan what life is like in, in your city?
Polina: So we have like the historical part, it also has like the intake buildings, right? We have like a lot of like residences of writers or artists that live like in 18th century for instance. And they’re still preserved. So like, also like in bearing my experiences, like in Europe, I would say that Russia is more like really service based.
So like [00:04:00] everything is always working and like in Europe it’s like more people based. So like. You know, on Sundays, for instance, like a lot of stores are not open like anywhere.
Leong: Right. Okay.
Polina: But like in Russia, everything, yeah. Works.
Leong: What’s food like?
Ivan: The Russian cuisine is quite warming because I think that we have like, really cold winters and stuff. Maybe it’s like little bit similar to German one. Because it has these, you know, like a lot of stews.
Leong: Would you say the same? Polina?
Polina: Yeah. I would say like Russian food. We have a lot of, you know, hot courses, like we have soups. I would say like meat also is very popular.
Leong: Are they famous dishes?
Polina: I don’t know. I just like recently I just really think about Borsch. But it’s like traditionally Ukrainian dish.
Leong: Right. Okay.
Polina: I dunno. We have like dumplings. Yeah, mashed potatoes. That’s what it, the classical like meatballs, I would say.
Leong: So. So then, uh, the things like celebrations, you know, Christmas, uh, what type of, um, festivities happens in, in Russia,
Polina: we have like Christmas when we have [00:05:00] Easter, but like for us, mainly New Year’s is like the main, you know, Christmas type celebration because it comes first.
Because we celebrate Christmas on the 7th of January, so whatever comes first to celebrate it the most, and I would say like Easter for us is also like the main celebration because in Russia, like in America for instance, people trick and trick on Halloween. In Russia, it’s like on Easter. So we say like the Christ has risen and we kind of get candies and like the egg.
Leong: Oh, right. Okay. And what, what else do you do, you know, as you were growing up, your friends socially, uh, what are the activities that, that you do?
Ivan: Everybody’s very focused on studies. Every school is very important ’cause they have to get good grades and then they have to go to university and then they have to get a nice job.
And it is quite important for everybody. And I don’t know from what happened there, but in Moscow we have got the addition of, uh, doing a lot of sports. You know, like if you’re a child, your parents are going to [00:06:00] make you do some sports, even if you don’t want to. Like when I was a child, I used to do some trampoline jumping, which sounds quite weird, but I swear to god it’s a real sport. And so I did some dancing. And yeah. Hmm.
Polina: In secondary school, I would say people like, you know, hang out still, like maybe on the weekends or stuff, but like when I enter high school or like the end of secondary school, like you go to school like at 8: 30 for example, and you finish like at 4, you know, and then I have a lot of homework and also need to, to prepare for exams.
Because exams, you know, literally it’s like entrance uni exams if you apply for Russian Uni. So, so like social life. Mm. I don’t, I don’t know, like in my circle, I was like a, uh, I had those like three friends and we were like A students and we did not really hang out like the last two years in high school at all.
Leong: How close is family? Uh, generally in, in Russia,
Ivan: I can tell the difference between the Europeans families [00:07:00] and there are families that my grandparents are actually the part of the family like you. Oh, okay. You call them baby and you spend time with them as, and if you have some uncles or maybe auntie, you’re gonna spend time with them too.
Leong: Right.
Polina: I would say they just come like pretty often. Yeah. You know, the grandparents, but still, like in Russia, I would say it’s not really popular for like kids to live with parents after the age of like 20 maybe when they go to uni.
Leong: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So what was some school like, you know, primary school and in secondary school? What do you remember?
Ivan: A lot of homework.
Leong: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Ivan: Which is quite different from what we do here because here in Spain, the system, there is no homework. Well, already it is not mandatory. Like it’s not a obligatory, and when you spend four hours a day doing it as a child. You come here and you’re like, it’s a paradise.
You don’t actually have to do anything. You go to your house and you are free here. We have some finals, [00:08:00] but in Russia we do exams every few weeks.
Leong: So how, how many subjects do you say you do?
Ivan: Three. Oh, like three. Three or four. Yeah.
Leong: What are those three subjects? That sounds like, uh, very few, uh, compared to other countries where you, you know, anywhere from five to 10
Ivan: You have to do the Russian language. And then you have to do some level of mathematics and one or two more that you’re going to do is well in the depends of your choice. It can be physics, chemistry, maybe some languages, English, French, German. Well, whatever you want to,
Polina: yeah. So like these like exams, they’re not like to finish school they’re to enter the university. That’s why it’s not like all the subjects. They have like 100 points for each subject and you take the subjects that you’re gonna study like in the university, but we have the right to take like every subject.
Ivan: Oh, most quite funny because when we apply to the university, we have to get like the 300 points maximum.
Well, because it makes sense. like three subjects and then you have a hundred points for each subject. But then there is some universities that require more than that. And then also people, [00:09:00] because like if you do sports for example, you can get some extra points and then if you do some extracurricular activity, you can get some extra points.
So there is actually some amount of people applying is like 310 out of 300. As in you look at it and you’re like, how the hell have you done it? Because the maths is not matching..
Leong: Right. So, so what did, what did both of you choose as your subjects and do you know what led you to where you are now?
Ivan: Well, I did the A levels actually, I did my final exams here in Spain and I was doing it in the British system.
Leong: Okay.
Ivan: So in A levels I did mathematics, physics, computer engineering, and further maths.. I failed further maths. It’s completely impossible for me. Right. So I was going to do some pure math as a university, but then business outcome, I just do informatic engineering and business.
Leong: What led you into Spain then? So it wasn’t for university,
Ivan: It is quite easy because like with the current situation, we just have to move somewhere from Russia. Oh. Because right now you cannot go outside of, well, you can go outside of the country, but it’s [00:10:00] quite complicated then maybe a little bit of economical situation. It’s like not a crisis, but it’s quite bad.
And I think with the political situation that we have right now. It is not going to improve in the, in a few years. And then Spain is one of the easiest countries that you can go to so my parents are like, you’re going to Spain.
Leong: Yeah. The what, what’s the political situation? Um, if you are happy talking about it.
Ivan: Yeah. Well, there’s the war, I guess, quite complicated for a young man. It is quite complicated because you always have a chance of becoming an army man.
Polina: Basically, like all men in Russia have to serve you know, in, in the Army for like one year. If they’re like from 18 until 27.
Ivan: If you are not studying in the university, or if you are not employed in the government structure, you actually have to do one year of military service.
You just do some basic training and you [00:11:00] serve for one year in the camp.
Polina: Yes. And like now especially, you know, like if like a boy serves in the army, they can force, you know, him to sign a contract to go to Ukraine.
Ivan: And I’ve got some friends of mine who are very scared about their studies because if you don’t finish the university, or if you are not currently studying in one there is a high chance of you actually being forced to go Army.
Polina: That’s why men like leave so that they don’t have to go to Ukraine.
Leong: Yeah. Okay. So you have friends, uh, any that has been drafted?
Ivan: No. In my cases I’ve got none of them, but I got some friends of a friend happen to them. I don’t know them personally, but I think that everybody has got someone that they know about and that they know that it happened to somebody.
Leong: Right. Okay. So, uh, Polina, did, did that affect, uh, where you are as well? The instability in the, in the country?
Polina: I mean, I have planned to study abroad like before the war started [00:12:00] actually.
Leong: Right, okay.
Polina: Now, overall, like Russian diploma would not really be qualified like in the international market, like maybe in China it would be because like Russia is building a lot of you know, relationships with China, but you know, like with European states or like with America, that would not really be, you know, as easy. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, like we had like inflation overall, but like for me, like since I don’t really have to serve in the Army, it’s, for instance, like I, I can go like for winter break overall,
Leong: right?
Polina: A lot of men flee and they don’t really return.
Leong: Does it stress you out? The situation, the instability, the, the war.
Polina: Of course, like overall I’m concerned like for Russia, but I don’t really read news because I just don’t want to be in this like information bubble and yeah, so basically like, you know, escape or like ignore.
But yeah, I am like, you know, worried overall about the you know, the quality of [00:13:00] life like in Russia because like, yeah, it’s just worsening.
Leong: Do your family talk about it or your friends?
Polina: Uh I mean, yeah, but like also we have a lot of propaganda on tv and also when I was talking to like some Ukrainian students on campus, they already knew when the war would start, but like in Russia, people don’t really know.
Yeah, I even heard that like there is no war like for Russia, ’cause like Russian people are so guarded about the war maybe from like about the news and stuff so it’s just very complicated.
Ivan: This is quite different because I don’t think that people actually speak about it too much. I’m like, everybody knows what’s going on, but then everybody just choose to ignore it and like not speak about it, which is a little bit unhealthy, but.
Polina: People don’t really want to discuss it because they’ll say they can’t really change it. That’s the point. Yeah.
Leong: So for both of you then, you being, being Russian, does that impact on, you know, where you are? Do people treat you differently?
Polina: Yeah, maybe like [00:14:00] I had difficulty opening like a bank account initially for my prolonged visa. But it’s just the banks because like, EU is against Russia, but like the people generally. Yeah.
Leong: Alright. Well let’s, then get into, so where you are now. So you are both at uni, the, you know, tell me what. Life is like at uni. So Polina, you wanna start?
Polina: Yeah, so I’m studying like at American University in Bulgaria and we have the American system. We study in English. I study business and information systems and I started information systems major. So, um, yeah, like the workload is quite fine also, but we have like overall our grade depends on quizzes and like midterm exams and assignments so you always have to study like the contents because like every two weeks they have like a quiz and then you have an assignment. Also, uni, we have like some clubs and like they organise some events that we can participate in, but overall, it’s just really, again, study [00:15:00] focused. Right.
Leong: So, so it seems quite similar to, uh, to when you were in school, just a lot of study.
Polina: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Leong: Okay. But what about you? Uh, Ivan. So then moving to Spain and A levels, and you said it’s a lot more people focused. Um, is is life different?
Ivan: Studying in Spain is quite different because I study in study in Spanish. I study in the Spanish University. Was quite difficult from the point of language because I’m not as fluent in Spanish as I’m in English or in Russian obviously. But, um, people are quite nice and studying very small university, well in, in a small part of a bigger one.
So a lot of friends, a lot of global connections. And from the point of social life, not as much because the campus is very small, but next week we are doing, um, volleyball tournaments. So yeah, some stuff going on, I guess.
Leong: Okay. What is it like being in, uh, among a lot of international students?
Polina: We have international students. The large group is obviously like Bulgarians, and then we also have a [00:16:00] big group, you know, from like Balkan countries. We have like North Macedonia, we have people from Albania, Russian speaking students from like Russia, Ukrainian, Kazakhstan.
Leong: You mentioned, uh, that they are Ukrainian students.
Polina: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Leong: Are they culturally similar to you and you mix with, uh, Ukrainian students?
Polina: I mean, yeah, like I would say like before coming to my uni, I was a little bit, you know, unsure how they will treat Russian students also, but uh, it’s pretty okay like usually like all Ukrainians speak Russian. Right. But like if they’re kind against Russia, they don’t speak Russian, so we don’t communicate ’cause I don’t speak Ukrainian.
Leong: Right. Okay.
Polina: Maybe if this kinda, disbalance exists, we don’t really cross as much. Yeah. But I do communicate with like some Ukrainian students also who are friendly.
Leong: So, so Ivan, how do you find interacting with these, uh, students? Uh, is it easy?
Ivan: Yeah, I think it’s quite easy because like Spanish people are pretty, very friendly. I’ve got like a lot of friends here and some [00:17:00] interaction can be sometimes difficult because of the language barrier. On the, you know, on the everyday level as in me forgetting the basic words and just struggling to express myself, which does happen sometimes.
Leong: Okay.
Ivan: Then about international students, there is none of them in my in my university, there is only another Russian guy, like two of us, two only international students are in the same group, and also of them are from Moscow, which is quite of coincidence. Uh, and then the school that I used to study in, we used to have some Ukrainian students.
Leong: So with, with the, the international students, you know, compared to when you were in school, uh, and back in, in Russia, how are international students different?
Ivan: Everybody is much more friendly. Just in general, like people are very open and they are easy going, like communicating with everybody, speak and chatting. While in Russia it’s not always the case. And in class there is much more [00:18:00] communication between the students and the teacher. And people have a lot of social activities, a lot of hobbies, so there is like just a lot of time being spent together. I guess it’s, it is way better.
Polina: Yeah. I would say like also like it’s much friendlier maybe because of the English here, because in English, like again, like this kind of American style, like everyone just asks like, how are you? Like, hi. You can just say hi to a professor, but like in Russian, like, no,
Ivan: no, you can do it.
Polina: Professor is like another level, so we can’t really communicate them like, you know, out of the classroom. And like in Russian, you don’t really go and say like, hi, how are you? Unless you’re really friends.
Leong: Yeah. Okay. No, being a university lecturer, uh, for, for many years, I know that from the lecturer side, we actually crave for students to come talk to us because even though there’s, you know, a few hundred students, most times nobody feels like they can talk to the lecturer. And so the ones that do come and ask are the ones that get all the [00:19:00] attention. So you should, you should try that.
Do you miss anything from home? Um, now, you know, studying in a different country.
Polina: Snow and some food.
Leong: Um, so that’s a, a very, um, main feature of Russia. The snow.
Polina: Yeah, so like basically here in Bulgaria, they don’t really have like winter.
They don’t really have snow at all. And like, you know, the coldest temperature is like minus two or minus three degrees Celsius. Like in my town, like last winter, it was like minus 32.
Leong: I, I come from Malaysia, so I don’t know anything about snow. In Australia hardly of snow either. So, yes. What, what is life in, uh, with that cold?
Like
Polina: it’s just nice, you know, like you change seasons and it’s just maybe, you know, diversity and the snow is just, you know, like especially when it’s Christmas, it’s much nicer. Yes. Like when it’s like March and it all melts, maybe it’s not as nice, but.
Leong: So Ivan, what would you miss?
Ivan: Yeah, I [00:20:00] think it’s the same actually because there is no winter in Spain and we as children and in Russia Village used to do like the play snowballs with each other and do some snow mens and stuff. And here in Spain, it’s just non existant and also me and my family, we do quite a lot of skiing. Like we used to do all ski and here in Spain you got a few places to go to, but all of them are like far away. And in Russia you can literally go outside of your house and in half an hour you’re going to be in a ski resort that’s like way better than you can find here in Spain.
Like I used to live in Moscow. You have got a few of them just around the city, so it’s quite, quite nice.
Leong: Yes. But being that cold, I mean. What are the clothes that you put on in order to keep yourself warm?
Polina: I don’t know we have like a jacket and then like the overcoat and then like pants. Winter boots and like the scarf and the hat.
Leong: The, yeah hats are quite, quite famous in Russia.
Ivan: I [00:21:00] think that just like little tradition of dressing your kid up when they’re going to school, if you put like five layers on them, like you get the jacket on and you get a sweater jacket then like an over coats and like little coat over it and yeah, you, you get to school or you get back to your home, you have to undress for like half an hour to take it all off.
Leong: Right. Uh, I would like to ask you if somebody were to follow your footsteps, you know, what would be your advice, you know, on moving to a different country and then, you know, studying there?
Ivan: In my case, I think this is going to be to learn the language. And it is quite helpful, and you’re going to avoid a lot of situations, like, for example, losing your mobile phone and just not being able to find a place that you’re going to, which has happened to me a few years ago, and it’s quite terrifying. Yeah. You better know some Spanish if you live in Spain.
Leong: Right.
Ivan: Which makes some sense.
Leong: So, so Polina, what, what would your advice be? Somebody following your footsteps?
Polina: Yes. Uh, I would say maybe like explore the, the [00:22:00] place where you live overall, you know, like where you can go and like, especially if you live like in the capital of the country, I would say it’s also very nice.
Um, yeah, like explore like local food. Also that’s for like, you know, moving abroad for like studying abroad, of course. Like, you know, maybe you could explore the opportunity that your, like university gives and like, depending on your like passport and like documents, maybe you could try, kinda try to outline the plan.
How, like if you plan to stay, you know, like to work or like what you’re gonna do, like mastery and stuff.
Leong: Okay. I’d like to add one more question, uh, because I know Polina, you have, uh, a big social media presence on, uh, on Instagram. You’re very active on it. Can I ask you what that means to you and how that relates to your studies?
Polina: Basically, like I am broadcasting about like my studies and like the you know, like study abroad. For me it’s just like building the [00:23:00] community. Yeah. And I think also since I study business, I think it is also like a, you know, a very practical thing to do. ’cause like social media, it is a part of business.
Yeah. And like by a personal example, I’m like learning how social media works so that I could put it like on my CV even. Yeah. And I think also like now it’s quite interesting to have like social media presence because it could give you opportunities. So like Yeah, like the world knows about you.
Leong: Right.
Okay. So it’s something you hope to keep pursuing.
Polina: Yeah, it gives me joy.
Leong: Right? Yes.
Polina: Some meaning in my studying.
Leong: That that’s an important thing. Can I ask the both of you, you know, what do you hope to, uh, go from here? What are your dreams?
Ivan: I think in my case, this kind of similar to my parents, because they used to have a travel agency in back in Russia.
Leong: A travel agency. You said?
Ivan: Travel agency? Yeah. Yes. They used to have it, but not, not for me. Uh, like maybe just open my own business and [00:24:00] do, like, I study finance, I study engineering, and I studied business. So maybe just doing something on this, on this field. Like when I was a child, I used to do some programming and I have made a few video games so maybe getting my own agency developing stuff, some software would be nice.
Leong: Polina?
Polina: Well, I think like my plan would be like to do masters. I’m not really sure about this. Yeah. So like, you know, try to find the job that gives me joy overall. Maybe it could be connected to like marketing or like finance.
I’m not really sure exactly what I want to concentrate on. Yes, and just, you know, be in this global environment, in the information systems and business. I think, you know, it’s overall very interesting ’cause like everything is moving really rapidly so I think it’s just nice to be in the, in that place, in like the circle.
Leong: Well, I’d like to thank both of you for coming on and for sharing your experiences. I think a lot of students around the world will find it [00:25:00] really useful.
Ivan: Oh yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me because it was actually quite, quite that experience.
Polina: Yeah. Thank you so much for having us on. I think it was like interesting even for us to learn about the, you know, experiences of like Russians being abroad in this situation, like setting. I think it’s very interesting.
Leong: It was fascinating finding out about life in Russia, the people, the food, the culture, but also about the concerns young students have about being drafted when they finish their studies. However, Ivan and Polina are striving to make things good for themselves and they have a healthy, positive attitude.
Well, that’s the final episode in series two of Student Life Unplugged. I’ve loved the variety of students who have taken part, giving us a real insight into students across the world. Remember, if you’d [00:26:00] like to participate and talk to us about student life in your country, you can get in touch with us using the information in the show notes and if you enjoyed what you heard, it would really help us if you could share it with your friends or anyone starting their uni journey, don’t forget to leave a review.
See you next time.
SLU EP 1 LETICIA BRAZIL MASTERED TX USE
LETICIA: [00:00:00] My sister, she also learned English by herself. ’cause she was a really big fan of One Direction and she wanted to understand the interviews.
LEONG: Yeah,
LETICIA: I was trying to have whole conversations with her and my mother hated it because we were talking. Every day in English and she couldn’t understand us and she was like, oh, why are you trying to hide? You’re trying to hide something because your not speaking Portuguese.
Hi, and welcome to the third series of Student Life Unplugged Space, where young people from all over the world talk openly about the diverse lives from the family and friends to their studies and dreams. Thank you all for your continued support and encouragement. We hope you find it useful and insightful and pass it on to those who think might benefit.
In this series, we speak to students from Nigeria to Brazil, Sri Lanka, to Kosovo, all with so many [00:01:00] interesting stories of what student life is like there. We hear how learning continues in war zones, what countries have 14 hour school days, and how to cope when you have a mental health breakdown during your studies. I’m constantly surprised by the resilience some students have, despite all the challenges and encouraged by their passion and excitement for their learning.
Today we go to Brazil with Leticia. After leaving school, she chose to study online. We discover the pros and cons of this kind of learning. Leticia paints a colorful picture of her life in Brazil, the festivals, the food, and the benefits of three generations under one roof. She begins by describing where she lives.
LETICIA: I am from Para in the state of Maranhão here in Brazil. Maranhão. is in the northeast parts of the country. The, the state is normal, but there is this thing in Maranhão that is, the desert is called, Lençóis Maranhenses, [00:02:00] the desert that has the most water in the world. It’s really, really beautiful. We have like dunes in there and the movie Dune. You know the movie? Yes. It was actually filmed there.
LEONG: Oh wow. So paint me the scenery. So, so it’s got water, which means that it has green. Uh, so that’s one part of it. But what’s the rest of it? Like
LETICIA: some parts of the northeast are deserts, they have like characters and et cetera, but this part specifically doesn’t have any green in.It’s little just sand and water,
LEONG: right? Okay.
LETICIA: Yes. But the rest of the states, the rest of the, of the region, it’s actually pretty common. I mean, we have like different climates and architecture it’s pretty common for normal,
LEONG: right?
LETICIA: So now we live in para, the motherland of Acai. It is a berry that’s getting really known throughout the world. And is there a purple berry? Like really, really tasty. And we usually like smash it and make a cream with it so we can eat. It’s really good. The culture from Maranhão and Para [00:03:00] are really different, even though they’re like neighbor states.
LEONG: So, so the people there, then what is life like? What do people do and, you know, for work and, and uh, you know, what are the big, uh, industries there?
LETICIA: In Para, where I live now, and in Maranhão where I come from, they have basically the same industries that rule them. So there is a company called Valley. It’s a really big company that works in the mining field. And here where I live in right now, the city is basically built for the company. So like all the people that work here, most of them work at Valley too.
Because it’s like the mining literally gives us all the money we have in the town. Uh, we take the minerals here and we send them all to Maranhão and there they ship to all parts of the world. Actually, the biggest client of the company, if I’m not mistaken, is China. So we sell a lot of iron to China. Yeah.
Other than the mining field, the most common way of income is actually farms. [00:04:00] So it’s two extremes. We have mining and we have farms.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Well that’s actually quite common. So I live in Australia now and mining towns is, is quite a common feature for a lot of places, but, but what about life? Do you know, for you as a young person, you know, growing up there, you know, what do you do for fun and what do you and your friends get up to?
LETICIA: Both from the place where I’m from and here the youth, we don’t have a lot of things to do. The entertainment is really bad. We have like a lake to go, maybe a square, so we go like, make a picnic or something. But that’s, that’s it.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah. I mean, when people think about Brazil, they, they do think a lot about celebrations, you know, and music and, and dance.Is that the case, um, uh, where, where you grew up or it’s actually quite different?
LETICIA: That’s the case, I believe, in the whole country. As I told you, Brazil has a lot of different cultures and, but there was just one country. But for example, in Maranhão we have one thing called the boy right is translated the cow, which is a really [00:05:00] famous legend we have here.
It’s about like this couple that they were enslaved, right in the times of slavery. The girl got pregnant and she really needed to eat the cow’s tongue. Oh, she was desiring it. So her husband went to the farm of their owners. Of course, this is a terrible word for use, but that’s that’s the case. So he went there and he took like the greatest cow’s tongue and gave it to her to eat.
So she ate it, but then the cow died. So imagine a slave killing the most famous cow of the owner of the farm. That’s not a good thing. So he called everybody. There are a lot of religions here. They call the African people they call the Indian, so the indigenous people that lived here and they also call the Christians.
So all of the three religions, they did a ritual together so they could bring back the cow to life.
LEONG: Wow.
LETICIA: And when the cow got back to life. The [00:06:00] cow has its tongue, right? Yes. So we often see in a big celebration here, everybody knows about Carnival. Right. Carnival is really famous.
LEONG: Right.
LETICIA: Right. But this is called San Juan.
San Juan is a really famous celebration here. We have a lot of different clothing, a lot of different food. Uh, particularly, this is my favorite party in Brazil. Yeah. And in the Northeast region, it’s like where is the most beautiful, where the food are more, more tasty and et cetera.
LEONG: Tell, tell us about the food. I mean, audience always like listening about food.
LETICIA: The food is amazing. Okay. San Juan really famous for its food. So it’s usually made of corn or peanuts. These are the base of the food. So we have something called it the Maçã do amor:, which translates to the apple of love, which is literally just a common apple, and then you put like melted sugar surrounding it.
Sometimes you broke your teeth for [00:07:00] you’re eating it, but Okay. Part of life.
LEONG: yeah,
LETICIA: we have. Also pejemolaki. I love pejemolaki. Its made like again with sugar. You put peanut in it like little squares and you eat. It’s so good. Mm-hmm. And then you also have pasta you make with cassava flour. And you take the cassava flour and you take the peanut and you make powder with the pinot, and then you mix it together, make little like circles with it.
And it’s also really tasty. Mm.
LEONG: Is it quite different in different parts of Brazil? The cuisine? Um, is there something common to all of them?
LETICIA: We all eat rice and beans, right? Like rice, beans and meat. Every part of the country you’re gonna find, if you’re Brazilian, you don’t eat rice, beans, and meat. Now you’re not Brazilian.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah. Okay. And, and children growing up do, do they learn from within the family just how to cook and you know how to actually make these, these very rich dishes?
LETICIA: Yes. We learn from our mothers, our fathers, our grandparents, usually a gram or a grandpa. They have a [00:08:00] secret receipe somewhere. Okay. They usually hide something from us.
Yeah, we’re old enough to know everything, but. I know how to cook a lot of dishes, but I’m gonna be honest with you, I’m really lazy.
LEONG: Right? Okay.
LETICIA: So sometimes my mother wanted to teach me something and I’d be like, no, I don’t need it. I don’t need it. Thankfully, I still live with her. So I’m still able to taste everything, to eat everything. But when I, it’s gonna be, I’ll have a hard time. Definitely. Right.
LEONG: Okay. No, it’s, it’s a luxury just to be able to stay with your family, you know, as you go through, go through your study. But tell me then about family. So we hear in, in Brazil that families are very close. Is that the case?
LETICIA: yeah, actually it depends like from which state you come from. Because for example, uh, in Maranhão where I came from, every family has an elder. At home, for example, you always have the mother and father, the children, and then like some grandparents there [00:09:00] because. We usually like after our grandparents, they’re older and they do not take care like great care of themselves anymore.
We usually say like, Hey, come on, live with us, and then they’re gonna take care of you. But of course, there’s not a case for every family. Even in my young, we saw some cases where the children will not take care of the elders. Usually. It’s very like, bad, look, we do not like this. But for example, coming here to Para, we see it really different. For example, I am 19 years old. I still live with my parents and I feel no pressure of living in my house. I know I’ll be able to stay here until I’m comfortable enough to leave the home, but I know if I want to live with them until like I’m 34 years old, I can do it. Mm. Okay. I feel no pressure.
But here in Para we see a completely different culture. We see like, uh, mothers telling their daughters and sons to live home when they’re 17, 18, which I think is absurd. Like they’re not even finished high school yet, and they already like put the pressure of living their houses. So that’s [00:10:00] why they usually have like early marriages, which makes the rest of their lives really hard.
LEONG: Hmm. That’s, that’s really interesting. So, so in the world right now, there’s a lot of debates about the aging population and, you know, where people sit and, you know, what you are describing is that there’s this, uh, family culture that the, uh, young ones take care of old ones and then the old one actually pass on the wisdom to, to the young one.
And you know, through history, that’s how civilization have existed. But now a big change, social change where people want. Young people to be independent, but that actually breaks the convention and breaks the, the culture. So, so what you described is actually very interesting.
LETICIA: My sister, she is 24 years old. She’s perfectly able to leave home if she wants, but like she doesn’t want to because we are all like really close. We all love each other. We’re all friendly towards each other. So like there’s no reason for her to leave. Yeah.
LEONG: Oh, let’s, let’s talk about your schooling. [00:11:00] So, um, how big are the classes? Are, are they co-ed, um, male and female together, or, or are they, uh, separated?
LETICIA: I did all my, my school in private school, only in my last year of school I went to public school. ’cause in Brazil is actually pretty common to go to private schools, of course. And not everybody has the money to go to private schools, but they are not like the USA schools, for example. Because if you go to a private school in USA, you have to be rich, right?
But in Brazil, they’re actually really cheaper because. We do not see the public who was having a, like a great teaching system. Everybody actually talks badly about our school system. They say that the kids don’t learn anything and et cetera. So my mother and my father, they always put education first in my life.
So of course when they could, they put me and my sister in private school. So yeah, we usually only [00:12:00] have classes for about six hours, but. I enjoyed a lot of my, my experience. And when I moved in my last year of high school to a public school, I’m not gonna lie, I was a bit, I was a bit terror. I was like, oh my God, am I going to fit What’s going to happen?
’cause my dad moved jobs, so we couldn’t afford a private school, right? So I went there. But it was actually one of the greatest years in my life. Mm. I, I had so, so many great experiences, but it’s true. The dedication in the public system is, is not good. Yeah. Sometimes I had like more than half of my school day gone because there weren’t any teachers.
LEONG: Right. Okay.
LETICIA: It was, it was really bad. Yeah. But overall. It was a great experience.
LEONG: Uh, so that was the last year of your, your high school, is it? Yeah. Um, so, so then what, what happened, uh, subsequent to that, you know, what, what uh, choices did you make in terms of, you know, what you did after high school?
LETICIA: Uh, in my town we do not have like, uh, the college experience.[00:13:00] We have some, uh, colleges here. We have like only about four, five courses, like five. That’s, that’s nothing. I think it’s like mathematics, architecture. Physics and something else. I don’t remember. So it wasn’t an option for me. Here I have two ways of getting into a college. In a a public college, we can do the Enem, which stands for national major.
Basically the, the high school national exam, which every student, if you’re going to high school, you start to get insane because you have to study to pass the Enem, right. And we have the Vestibular, which is a type of exam, is specifically for one college if you want to go. So their name is like.
It is like general, if you have a great score in Enem, you can get into basically. Every college in the Brazil, but Vestibular is like you do a specific exam for one college. For example, if I want to [00:14:00] go to Espi, I have to make a Vestibular Espi. If I want to go to … , I have to make a Vestibular for …
LEONG: So, so you actually have to know where you want to go, uh, to Exactly. To take the exam for it. You have to. Okay. So what are you doing now?
LETICIA: So, I’m actually going to a private one. I told you about how you’re getting to the, the public ones. Mm-hmm. So I am going to a private one that is online, an online class. I started doing a, a bachelor in administration and a license in English, and Portuguese is a double one, so I’m doing it because of work.Yeah. So it’s easier to get a work if I’m already started, but of course I still hope. To find out what I actually want to do with my life. So maybe I go to a, to a in-person college or something.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Tell me then about, um, studying online. Do, do you enjoy it? You know, what is that experience like?
LETICIA: Well, I actually [00:15:00] like it because it’s easier, but I, myself, I prefer to go like to an in-person course because I like to talk to people. I like to talk to the teachers. I am a social person. But overall, I think it’s a really good thing. I think it’s really useful.
LEONG: You, um, like getting involved with, uh, with politics and you’re very active. Um, is is it in general young people in Brazil are active?
LETICIA: Well, I think it depends a lot on like which group of. The youth you’re talking with because in my circle, everybody’s actively involved with politics. Like every young people I know, they’re all like really into politics, but I see there’s a lot of, like a lot of people that are like, oh, that’s boring, that’s not interesting.That it doesn’t matter. So, yeah, we have like the two.
LEONG: Yeah. So, so to, for those of you who are active, you know, who do care about, uh, what actually happens to, uh, in terms of our politics and, and leadership and, uh, the country, how do you feel the, [00:16:00] how Brazil is going?
LETICIA: In my town, because we have a lot of money coming from the mining, coming from the taxes, I have no complaints about my town, but my state, the governors are terrible. I don’t like the way that they work. They don’t care about the, the studies. They don’t care about anybody at all. But in my country, if we talk about Brazil, I actually have elections in 2022. And we went from Bolsonaro, our previous president, and he was like a far right politician. And we, we go to Lula, which is known as a left politician.
So the elections, it was almost 50, 50%. So when Lula won, it was everybody was like, oh my God okay, so Lula is back and now he’s doing, actually, I think he’s doing a great job. I’m not like, oh my God, I love Lula. No, but I think he’s doing a great job comparing to what was happening before. Now I was ashamed of my country, right?
As I told you, they are like. Opposite sides. [00:17:00] Right? I dunno if you heard about like Trump putting taxes in Brazil.
LEONG: I heard about him putting taxes on the whole world. Yeah,
LETICIA: 50% in Brazil. What’s happening is. It’s blowing my mind right now because, uh, Bolsonaro really hates Ola, right? He really hates Ola and he was a friend with Trump. So Trump said that he put the 50% taxes because Bolsonaro was about to get arrested,
LEONG: right?
LETICIA: Bolsonaro got arrested. And my god, people are going the streets with Brazil flags. You’re like, oh my god. Release Bolsonaro, release Bolsonaro. And I’m like, politics here. Are insane.
LEONG: Right. Okay. No. So, so what do you think, uh, you and, you know, young people like yourself, the, the group that, uh, you have, what changes, uh, need to happen with, um, in, in Brazil? Uh, what are the positive changes that you look for?
LETICIA: I think right now. The change we need to do is to stop being fan of politicians, okay? We cannot adore a politician. [00:18:00] We have to get to know them, to get to know what they’re planning to do. We have to know what they are doing right now. Before the person, right?
Because sometimes people are too passionate about the person and forgot about what they’re doing, which is terrible and which not working. There are really sorry for the wording, but really shitty laws that are are happening and this is happening because. Of how people adore their politicians. Hmm.
LEONG: I hope you keep it up.I think we need more young people who are active in, um, in, in, uh, advocating for the future for, uh, not just, uh, Brazil, but the rest of the world. So you said you are working, uh, what are you working in?
LETICIA: I’m actually working as an English teacher. I teach children, adults. It’s actually pretty nice.
LEONG: Tell me what’s that’s like, you know, being a student but, and also also teaching, uh, other students.
LETICIA: Well, I had my first job, uh, working for the town for a course that the town offered, and it was a amazing experience. I loved my students, they loved me, but it was really funny because I’m only 19 [00:19:00] years old and most of my students were like 17, 18. Some of them were older, so they were like, how, how are my teacher?
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yeah. Where did you learn your, your English from?
LETICIA: I learned by myself. You know, every, every kid, every teenager, they have like a evil phase. right?
LEONG: Right.
LETICIA: Okay. Hit me really strong. I was like 13, and I was listening to those songs like, oh, I hate everybody else. Everybody hates me. So I would like, every day I would open YouTube and I would watch those song videos.
Mm. I was listening to this song and I was reading the subtitles. So when I realized it, I already knew how to sing some of the songs. I already knew what some of the words meant, but of course, I couldn’t speak yet. So after that, I started. Watching a lot of movies, a lot of TV shows in English, which helped my vocabulary increase a lot.
But I was really lucky because my sister, she also learned English by herself, but she was very fluent when I was still learning. ’cause she was a [00:20:00] really big fan of One Direction and she wanted to understand the interviews.
LEONG: Yeah,
LETICIA: I was trying to have whole conversations with her. My mother hated it because we were talking every day in English and she couldn’t understand us and she was like, oh, why you trying to hide? You’re trying to hide something because they speaking Portuguese. This is how I learned English,
LEONG: so, so it sounds like you like language because you learn, um, Mandarin as well. You learn Chinese. Tell me about that.
LETICIA: I fell in love with Chinese culture a bit before the pandemic years. I was reading some Chinese novels and they were really interested in like how everything worked, how different it was from what I was used to reading, because only reading like USA things, watching a lot of anime, which I, I watched a lot of anime to watch it today. There’s a time that you’re gonna know what’s going to happen next. So in, in 2019 when I found the Chinese media, [00:21:00] I was like, okay, that actually surprised me. And this is amazing. So I fell in love with the culture.
LEONG: So, so for the audience, uh, the teacher did some, uh, Chinese lesson in the student forum that, uh, that, that we run. And you actually really amazingly. Good for, for somebody who actually haven’t done it formally. So just to learn it online is quite amazing the level that you actually reach and, and the pronunciation that, that you did.
So, so you must watch a lot and And you absorb a lot.
LETICIA: Yes. I only did it in 2024 because the company opened here in Para with a Chinese company and a lot of the employees are Chinese. And I was like, okay, it’s something that I like and that’s a really great opportunity.
LEONG: You mentioned that, you know, because of mining, you know, there’s actually a lot associated with, with China also. Is there a lot of, uh, a mix in, in culture from, uh, from places like, uh, China, in, in Brazil, the influence of that culture in, in Brazil,
LETICIA: uh, here we have some Chinese people, but [00:22:00] since they’re new, we don’t have like a lot of influence yet. But in some places like Sao Paulo, we have like whole neighborhoods that are only like for the Chinese people.
Hmm. Actually we have a lot of different cultures in Brazil because Brazil is a mix of cultures. Like if you ask to Brazil, oh, one nationality were your great grandmothers, you’ll never know. ’cause they could be like from literally everywhere.
LEONG: What do you hope for yourself, where you are now and, um, what, uh, ambitions do you have in terms of studies, you know, in terms of your, the career that you have in the future?
LETICIA: My biggest plan right now. To keep studying languages because I’m really passionate about them. I really love learning new languages, learning about new culture, and my plan is to be able to learn them and to travel to the countries that they are from. So for example, I’m learning Chinese and I’m already looking for a scholarship maybe to go to China for six months, one year, I dunno, and have a word online.
Doing an online job and being able to travel the world. That’s my biggest plan [00:23:00] right now.
LEONG: Right. So, so there is demand, uh, of course for, for teaching. So, um, yeah, so, so I hope you’re able to pursue that Now. Uh, what would you advise for students who are reaching the high school, you know, thinking about what they should do next, you know, what are the important things to think about and what advice would you give them?
LETICIA: The first thing you have to think about is whether you want to stay where you are right now or if you are willing to take the risk of moving to another place. So you kinda like, oh, I want to, I don’t know. I want to study astrophysics and I live in a town that has nothing to do with it. I don’t have the courage to go out.
So yeah, you have to like step on the ground and think about something that really feed you in your situation right now. But if you’re willing to get to know the rest of the, the, the world to have the courage to live home that, that way you can. Look at more opportunities.
LEONG: Would you recommend the path that you took, um, studying online and, you know, working at the same time?[00:24:00]
LETICIA: Oh, yes. It’s actually a really great path. I learned a lot, um, since I left high school. A lot of opportunities were offered to me because of the path that I choose. So it is a great path. Of course, I’m not stuck where I am right now, so I can change whenever I want. That’s another thing for the youth to remember.
You’re not forced to do anything. Okay? You can leave, you can change jobs, you can change courses. There’s no problem with it. So yes, I think it’s a really great, great path.
LEONG: Well, Leticia, great talking to you. I think you’ve opened up the audience mind to a lot of things, uh, not only about Brazil, but about, uh, education, about making choices, about being involved and being engaged.
So really love talking to you and thank you for joining us.
LETICIA: Okay, thank you very much. It was a pleasure to be here and talking to you.
LEONG: What I love about Leticia is the passion she has for life. You can hear it in her [00:25:00] use of language. Also, love when students like her are so involved in politics and her determinations to study even when her choices of courses are limited. Thank you for tuning in to Student Life Unplugged. If you’ve just found us, please listen back to series one and two to hear lots more students from all over the world.
And if you’ve enjoyed it, please share it with your friends or with anyone starting out in their uni journey. Don’t forget to follow the show. Catch you in the next episode.
SLU EP 2 ANJALEE SRI LANKA MASTERED TX
ANJALEE: [00:00:00] If you want to be a engineer, you can do it. If you want to be a painter, you can go in that way. Your whole future depends on you. You are responsible for your life. Trust, your wings. If you can’t trust your wings, you can fly far away.
LEONG: Hi, and welcome to the third series of Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about the diverse lives from the family and friends to their studies and dreams. In this week’s podcast, we visit the jewel of the Indian Ocean. That is Sri Lanka. Speak to Anjalee.
Having completed her Bachelor’s in Information Technology, she’s now taking a Master’s in digital media in Ireland. Anjalee speaks passionately about student life in her home country and how inspiring her course was. Being able to meet real entrepreneurs who [00:01:00] gave real advice. We hear about Sri Lanka’s rich culture, delicious food, learn what happens when you have the support of your family.
As usual, we begin with where she’s from and ask her how she would describe Sri Lanka
ANJALEE: full of colors, history, amazing food, genuinely kind people. Yeah, actually, we got everything. Cute little towns, big cities, beaches, mountains, waterfall, jungle, everything. So Columbia is the capital. Little bit crazy with traffic sometimes, but full of life.
LEONG: So where are you from?
ANJALEE: I was born in Kandy. My mom’s parents and my mom’s family live in Kandy. And then after we moved to Kegalle, because my dad from Kegalle. Yep. I love Kandy. It’s so calm, cool, and [00:02:00] surrounded by hills. Okay. I really enjoy walking around the little street in Kandy. It’s kind of a slow motion movie scene,
LEONG: right?
Is it very traditional? Know what the buildings like? The architecture
ANJALEE: Kandy, it’s a little bit traditional. People try to modernize, but. I said, no Kandy wants to be like a traditional city because, um, we have a proud history. We have a important place we call Temple of the Tooth. Really? It’s kind of a temple.
Uh, lots of Buddhist people came. Over there and worship Bud. The Kandy, it’s a cultural city and every August we have a big cultural event. We call this ra.
LEONG: Is that Religious SA Celebration,
ANJALEE: cultural and religious collaboration. Okay. Sri Lankan dancing. Traditional dancing, we call it Kandian dance.
[00:03:00] Traditional dramas. Elephants just like dress, uh,
LEONG: elephants. Yeah.
ANJALEE: It’s so interesting.
LEONG: So, so they’re, they’re part of the celebration, so, so do they do a parade?
ANJALEE: Yeah, it’s a grand festival.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah, so, so the main religion,
ANJALEE: Buddhist, but Sri Lanka has four. Religion, a Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, and Catholic.
LEONG: Okay.
And the languages,
ANJALEE: lots of people. Speaking. Some of people speak in tam.
LEONG: Alright, now tell me about the food. What is that like?
ANJALEE: Sri Lankan food. Oh my god, that’s next level, right?
LEONG: Right. I can hear the enthusiasm. Yeah,
ANJALEE: actually, um. You know the, what I missed the most in here is Sri Lankan food, especially my mom’s food, right?
So Sri Lankan food is next level of spices, flavors, and like, it’s unique in every home, literally. So [00:04:00] even some dish test different when your aunt made it versus your mom. Like, let’s think about Daal Curry. So my mom’s daal Curry is very specific and my grandmom’s daal curry. It’s different.
LEONG: Yeah. In in what way?
ANJALEE: Yeah. My mom made, she has three or four difference where to make the daal curry, but my grandmom, she using little bit moose spices. So that’s different flavor. And um, sometimes my mom made. Using oil with the lc curry, it’s different flavor. Sometimes we are adding coconut milk. We have a unique recipe for everything.
Like my chicken curry, it’s different. My mom’s chicken curry is different. Like we are using same spices and same ingredients, but different flavors.
LEONG: Yep. So, so some of us do get some exposure to Indian dishes. Is, uh, comparing Sri Lankan to [00:05:00] Indian dishes. Uh, how different and similar are they?
ANJALEE: Yes. Uh, Indian also using lots of spices and they’re using tomato base for lots of dishes.
Mm-hmm. But we are using coconut milk for every dishes and they’re using cardon and coriander leaves and we are also using that. But I feel difference. I think because of the spices
LEONG: my, my mouth is watering. Even just listening to you describe,
ANJALEE: and I want to talk about Sri Lankan junk food.
LEONG: Junk food,
ANJALEE: yes.
I miss those. The one food we called Kuththu Roti and we cut paratas and add some vegetable like leaks carrots and loads of sauce, loads of oil like we are mixing like this. And the sound like taaka, taaka, taaka, okay, sweet and spices all mixed together. Eating a proper [00:06:00] Kuththu Roti means it’s not. Happy your mouth, it’s happy, your whole soul.
Right. Okay. But you know, after eating Kuththu Roti, your cholesterol goes high, your pressure goes high.
LEONG: Right.
ANJALEE: Like, like actual junk food.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah. No, we, we have to, we have to try it.
ANJALEE: Yeah, of course. Yeah.
LEONG: So tell me about the schooling there.
ANJALEE: Comparing to Ireland and comparing to other countries. Sri Lankan education system is strong roots, but.
Lots of pressure.
LEONG: Lots of pressure. What do you mean?
ANJALEE: Lots of exams? Lots of tuition. Grade one, two, grade five. Primary school and grade five we have a scholarship exam, so if you are passing that scholarship exam, you can go, um. School with more facilities.
LEONG: Right. Okay. What age did you take that first exam?
ANJALEE: Grade five means [00:07:00] I think, um, 10 or 11. Yep.
LEONG: So, so if you don’t pass that exam, what happens? Actually,
ANJALEE: nothing like that’s an advantage for it. If they pass that exam, they can easily go for a good school. If you’re not past that exam, you can continue your studies. Um, there are some small schools, like less of facilities and lots of laboratory facilities.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Are they government, uh, schools Yes. Versus private school? Uh, is there a major difference between the, the two of them?
ANJALEE: I went to government schools, um, private school, little bit different. I think they are following London syllabus,
LEONG: right? Okay. Yeah. Is it better or worse, or, it’s actually hard to, to say.
ANJALEE: Honestly. I think Sri Lanka need to upgrade Sri Lankan school education system, grade five exam. Actually, it’s not necessary for everyone like. Kids miss [00:08:00] their whole childhood. They’re attending tuition classes and they’re doing papers and marking that. And, you know what I mean? Lots of stress in your head.
Right? And after your results, you can choose your, another school and you miss your friends. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that’s hits in different way emotionally and every, yeah.
LEONG: Now you mentioned friends. Uh, tell me about friends and, and family, you know, while you’re going through your primary school, how big is your family?
ANJALEE: At home, it’s me, my parents, my brother, my grandparents, and two dogs, four cats. Yeah, it’s a full house. Okay.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yeah. And, and you enjoy family life?
ANJALEE: Of course. I love my family and, um, I’m lucky to have such a supportive family. Um, so my dad, like, I love my dad. Every time he believes in [00:09:00] me. Mm-hmm. And my mom, she’s the most strongest woman I see in this whole universe because, um, like, you know, Sri Lanka, it’s kind of a cultural country still.
So. Before 25 people asking about your exams, your education, your jobs. After 25, they’re asking about your marriage. Okay. So that kind. So my mom, she’s not like that. She broke all the barriers and she told me, go fly girl. Right, okay.
LEONG: Yeah.
ANJALEE: Yeah. I love my family actually. I miss them.
LEONG: And you mentioned your grandparents are, are with you in the family too?
Yeah. Is that, is that normal for a lot of families that grandparents are with you?
ANJALEE: Yeah. It’s normal because, um, my mom’s mom and dad live with us. Okay. Now they are. Old. So we need to help them. We need to care about them. So,
LEONG: and with school, are you, what is, uh, student life, you know, when you’re in primary secondary [00:10:00] school, like, uh, to what is a normal day with friends, like, uh, in the
ANJALEE: first thing come up to my mind, like via eating ice creams every day.
Right? And we are chatting, we are playing. After school, uh, we are attending some tuition classes. Then after we come back to home and we are watching cartoons. In my primary school, I had one friend, she’s my special friend. Then, uh, my secondary school, I had lot, lots friends, lots of friends. In school time, we had like, end of the year we had concerts.
So in that concert time, we are practicing for acts and dramas. Those time there’s no studies, we are going to corner and we are gossiping. Like, you know, in those times we are talking about boys and yeah, [00:11:00] dramas. I can remember in those time. I’m a K drama fan. We are collecting kdr actors, um, calendars.
LEONG: What was K drama?
ANJALEE: Korean dramas.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So you’re, you’re a lot better than I am, but yeah. I mean, I can see your, uh, face light up and your eyes light up. But when you talk about your friends and you talk about food, so how important is this, um, the friendship and family and, and all of that to face all that pressure drop, uh, your schooling,
ANJALEE: that’s the important part.
Sometimes I feel so stressed about my exams, so my mom and dad, like they totally understand about myself. Like they try to me like try to say to me, no, it’s fine. You can pass or fail, like. That’s the situation. Mm-hmm. So no need to worry about that. And like my parents are so caring about me and that’s a biggest support for me and my [00:12:00] friends.
Like I told you, like my school life is some kind of pressure, but like that kind of small chats, like small gossip corners that reduce our stress. So that’s most important. Sad to say sometimes I saw, um, some students have depression because of the stress of studies. Um, yeah. That’s why I told you Sri Lankan school education system need to be upgraded.
LEONG: Did, did students get support? Uh, when they experience things like depression?
ANJALEE: Yes. Um, sometimes they are getting help from other but countryside people, they are not getting awareness of depression. So yeah. Kids getting so depressed, so.
LEONG: Yeah. Were you aware of these really, uh, mental health problems and, and, and stressor issues when you were in [00:13:00] primary school?
Did any, did the school tell you about them? Did you know, did, did families talk about them and, and things like that?
ANJALEE: My family, yes. My mom, she knows everything about me. And like sometimes if I’m laying on my bed and I’m thinking about something like my mom know, oh, this girl have this problem, right? I’m so grateful for having that kind of family because like when I, when I was a kid, I don’t have any idea about anxiety, depression or anything, so, but my mom knows.So she guide me.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Do you see that your other friends and other school, uh, children have that type of support or you feel that, uh, your mom and your family is actually quite unique?
ANJALEE: Uh, my mom and family. Kind of unique because, um, Sri Lanka still have hierarchy system, like white collar jobs, blue collar jobs.
So every parent wants to see their son to [00:14:00] be an engineer, their scientist, doctor, whatever creative people they are doing engineering degree and they are being engineer. Then after they suffer their whole life.
LEONG: Hmm.
ANJALEE: Okay. It’s not only the, um, school education system, like we need to upgrade in our mindset as well.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So what, what was your mom’s background? So how did she come to be so liberal and actually have such wide understanding of, of, uh, children’s needs?
ANJALEE: Yeah, my mom, um. She came from a culture of family. Mm-hmm. So my mom had that old experience, so she avoid that situation from me and my brother. She told us, you can do whatever you like. Yeah. Coming to Ireland is my own. She tell me, okay, you can go, you can do whatever you like.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So tell me then about, you know, end of high school, as you [00:15:00] were thinking about what you were doing, you know, what choices you made that led you to here.
ANJALEE: After completing my advanced level examination, uh, my mom told me to go to a private university.
We call it Sliit. Okay. S-L-I-I-T. So I’m proud Sliit person. I love to talk about my university life. Mm. If I got a time machine, definitely I go to my university time.
LEONG: So tell me about it. What was so good about it?
ANJALEE: My university, it’s located in Colombo, my home to Colombo. It’s take three hours, bus drive. So I went to Colombo and I live with my cousins.
So good time period. I’m like a free bird. No parents, like, no one tell me, don’t do this, don’t do this. I’m, I’m on my own way. Mm-hmm. And so, and I had five friends still. They’re my best friends. (names the friends)
LEONG: Right. [00:16:00] You, that’s a call out to all of them.
ANJALEE: Yeah, of course.
LEONG: So what did you do?
ANJALEE: Actually, I did my bachelor’s degree in there. I treated a management information system. It’s kind of like Tech and business both. Sliit is it’s so practical. I love that. So we are doing, um, interviews and assignments that totally based on practical, right?
Real world thing. Yeah. Like meeting entrepreneurs talk with tech people and getting their experience, you know what I mean? So relatable for our career, our future, like we can take something from them.
LEONG: The satisfaction that I’m hearing from you, so you, you were placed in workplaces or did people come on campus to interact with you and, uh, do mentoring?
ANJALEE: I think both happened. I can remember one assignment we did, we can choose one of Sri Lankan leading entrepreneur and we can interview [00:17:00] them. So. We had an interview with Fouzul Hameed He is the founder of Hameedia Clothing brand. It’s a luxury clothing brand. They share their experience with us and when you are talking with that kind of real world example, you can take a lots of thing for your life.
It’s not kind of writing exams like they told us actually. How your clothes represent you and how to start a business. Like it’s inspire us. Mm. And the other thing is when I’m learning to take parts in my degree. So we are making real world examples.
LEONG: So you create a technology or, or, uh, you did, uh, programs or
ANJALEE: Yeah, we, we made some programs and, uh, I can remember we made a CRM system for, uh.
Um, luxury hotel chain.
LEONG: So that’s a customer relations management system.
ANJALEE: [00:18:00] Yeah. Like, I’m so thankful to my university. I learned a lot from my university.
LEONG: Yeah. No, it’s, it’s wonderful to hear you talk about it. Not only because you got a good experience, but uh, to be able to articulate what is it about? A, a course and a a degree that actually engages the students, you know, get you excited and you can, I clearly can hear that you’re inspired.
So then tell me how did you end up now, uh, going to Ireland and, you know, what was the steps that led you to, to Ireland?
ANJALEE: Actually, my life is like that sometimes. Uh, like I’m going straight and I, I want, I think I want to. Make a big turn, right? So this is that kind of turn. So my, my dad, he was working in Italy 12 or 13 years, and he shared the experience in Europe country, their standards, their lifestyle and everything.
So I had a keen [00:19:00] interest to go to Europe and. Explore. And another thing that I choose Ireland, because Ireland is an English speaking country, and also my cousin, she lives in Ireland and uh, she inspired me a lot. Mm-hmm. I got lots of offer letters in Dublin related universities, but I, I was thinking, no, I want to go to countryside because I can have a proper experience about Ireland and I can enjoy Ireland’s life. Mm-hmm. So then after I got an offer in Atlantic Technological University.
LEONG: So where, where is it?
ANJALEE: I live in west of Ireland, small city called Castlebar, in County Mayo.
LEONG: And And what’s the degree
ANJALEE: that you’re doing? Master of Science, digital media and marketing.
LEONG: Okay.
ANJALEE: Little bit different. Uh, my bachelor’s degree, it’s related management information system and uh, now I’m doing digital media and marketing.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah. [00:20:00] Alright. Now then, tell me how different is it? Um, so how long have you been in Ireland now?
ANJALEE: Almost eight months. Like, moving to Ireland was like teleporting into a freezer.
LEONG: Okay.
ANJALEE: I came from 30 degrees sunshine. To wind cold weather like first few days. Actually. I didn’t know if I should cry or wear in jacket or whatever. I did both. Actually there was a storm, bigger storm in Ireland actually. I survived, uh, without heaters. And, uh, without hot water, without electricity, so, yeah.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yeah. Um, so the, the weather is quite different, but, um, you know, what, what is the university like, uh, what are the people like?
ANJALEE: First day I came here to now, like lots of random Irish people help me a lot. I want to give a special shout out for my landlady. She’s basically like my Irish [00:21:00] mom. She helped me to settle in here every single time.
She’s. Thinking about me. Last June, I had my birthday. I celebrate my birthday with her. She made a surprise for me. And uh, like I feel that because, you know, I’m far away from my home. There’s no relations, no lot friends in here, but. I’m not feel strange in here. Like I think that’s the best decision I ever got.
LEONG: So, uh, what’s, what’s next for you? You know, what do you hope to do and, you know, what’s the next few years going to be like for you?
ANJALEE: I love to work in Ireland as well because I have to be a work visa here. So after my student visa, then I have to be work visa. So I think. Ireland is a hub of all, uh, technological company because IBM, Google, Microsoft, lots of.
Good [00:22:00] opportunities I can grab in here and I hope to continue my PhD as well, but if I’m thinking I want to do that or not.
LEONG: And, and what’s, what’s your dream? Um, if you could be placed anywhere, do any, any job or, or your business of your own, what would it be?
ANJALEE: I love to be an UX UI designer.
LEONG: Yeah. That’s user interface?
ANJALEE: Yes, because, um, I think I am a half tech person, half creative person. So I want to mix together and um. Yeah, I won’t launch my career in that way as well as I am thinking to start a business as well. We’ll see.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah, no, that seems to be lots of opportunities. Uh, certainly in user design. Yeah. User interface.
And so, so, yeah. But I think for, for you, I mean, you certainly are very approachable. You’re very friendly and you’re very professional and so, so I think that’s a great, uh, future for you. Thank you. So now. A lot of our listeners are students, you [00:23:00] know, reaching the end of their high school thinking about what they’re gonna do at uni or they might have started uni.
Mm. So you’ve gone through that path, you know, what is your advice for people just starting out with that change, you know, going from high school into into university? What are the important things for them to remember?
ANJALEE: Yeah. The first thing is do whatever you want. If you want to be a engineer, you can do it. If you want to be a painter, you can go in that way. Your whole future depends on you. You are responsible for your life. So if you want to take a change like my, kind of like big turning point, trust your wings. If you can trust your winds, you can fly far away. You know, in sky there’s no limitation, there’s no boundaries.
LEONG: That, that’s a wonderful advice, you know, to trust your wing so you can fly. So, so yeah. A lot of students should, should take that up. So Anjalee, it’s been wonderful talking to you. I think, uh, [00:24:00] your enthusiasm for life and for studies and what you hope to achieve is contagious. You know, I feel it. Talking to you.
So I, I hope all the best to you for, uh, for your studies and, and I look forward to seeing where you will go and you know, the, the life that you would have.
ANJALEE: Thank you so much for inviting me to this chat. I really enjoyed, like I memorized all the past experience and everything. Thank you so much for.
LEONG: There are some interviews where the passion is contagious. It was wonderful to speak to someone with such love for life and for people in it. The phrase, trust your wings is such a powerful message for all of us. Thank you for tuning into Student Life Unplugged. If you’ve just found us, please listen back to series one and two to hear from lots more students from all over the world.
And if you’ve enjoyed it, please share it with your friends. Or [00:25:00] anyone that’s starting out with their uni journey, don’t forget to follow the show. Catch you in the next episode.
SLU EP 3 – ANTON – INDO TAIWAN MASTERED TX
ANTON: [00:00:00] In my depression phase, I cannot study at all. Usually I was in like three rankings from the app, right? But when I was in depression, my ranking drops from rank two from below.
LEONG: Hi, welcome to Student Life Unplugged Space, where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives from their families and friends. To their studies and dreams. Today, we hear about student life in Indonesia and Taiwan and explore what happens when there’s a sun change in your mental health.
Anton is from Java in Indonesia and is currently studying biotechnology in a public university there. As a student, Anton has continuously achieved high grades despite managing a mental health condition. He talks about the family tragedy that triggered his [00:01:00] bipolar condition, why he has to leave his studies in Taiwan ’cause of it.
I begin by asking him about life in Indonesia.
ANTON: Right now I’m in Jepara. Jepara is a small beach town in the north of Java Island. Jepara is famous for the wood carving. We are also famous for furniture. Yeah. We export it to all around the world.
LEONG: How is it different to the rest of, uh, of Indonesia? Is it very different?
ANTON: Okay. So Indonesia is a very vast, uh, region in the world.
Different island has their own characteristic and culture, even in the island of Java. There are around six or seven refactor, some kind of, uh, region. Right. And each of the regions speaks their own language. Yeah. Sunda and Java is totally different, but in east and central Java, we use Javanese, but the dialect is [00:02:00] kind of different because there are some words in East Java dialect that I cannot found it in Central Java dialect.
LEONG: Okay. Uh, tell me, tell me about food. What’s food like in it?
ANTON: Yeah, the food is very different because in West Java, usually people cook with sweet taste, but in East Java, usually people will cook with spicy taste and several taste. So we have different tastes regarding our tongue.
LEONG: Did you learn how to cook as you were growing up?
ANTON: Yeah, sometimes I cook, sometimes I just buy it. But I can cook. My grandma is, uh, not a chef, but producing of cakes, something like that.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Do cakes. That’s, uh, that’s, that’s very interesting. I was just cooking cake earlier today, so, so that’s something my kids like. Tell me about what the typical dishes are they rice based, you know, what do you have for breakfast, lunch, dinner.
ANTON: Usually I eat rice with condiments. Usually condiments include chicken, maybe fish, [00:03:00] because I live in the beach town. Right. So fish is very normal here.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Uh, what do, what do people celebrate their cultural, uh, events, uh, festivals
ANTON: in my hometown. There is, uh, Lomban – you take Buffalo’s head and throw it in the ocean to celebrate the abundance, the harvest from the ocean,
LEONG: right?
ANTON: We celebrate it once a year.
LEONG: That’s very interesting celebration. Okay. So let’s start with, uh, your studies as you were growing up. What do you remember most about your early studies?
ANTON: Okay. My primary school is divided in the two phase. The first one is in Jepara and the second one is Semarang. When I was in, uh, junior high school and senior high school, I got accepted to National Olympiads in physics.
LEONG: Right.
ANTON: So. I was in physics back then. After that, I go to [00:04:00] university in Semarang. I study statistic, but I didn’t complete it. But it’s in, uh, private university, but I want to study in public university. So I follow the selection again, a national selection. For the public university. And I got accepted in Brawijaya at that time my score in, uh, biology and physics is high.
So I applied for biotechnology in Brawijaya.
LEONG: Well, that’s, that’s great. Uh, uh, especially your, your performance in that. But why did you want to study in the public, uh, university?
ANTON: Because, uh, generally in Indonesia. We see public university is more prestigious than, uh, private university in Indonesia. If you want to go to public university, you need to apply for the, the entrance test to enter the public university.
So we [00:05:00] are being tested against thousands of, uh, students, other students.
LEONG: Is that a lot of pressure?
ANTON: For me because I’m an easygoing person, so I didn’t, uh, have any pressure.
LEONG: Okay. Yeah. Uh, tell me about the mindset. You know, how do you think about it? Because a lot of students have a lot of stress, uh, for, uh, studying. So, but you seem to be handle actually pretty well, so how do you do it?
ANTON: Okay, so my trick is always pay attention to the teacher or to the lecturer when they lecture you. Everything that you can absorb, absorb. Then you will grasp the concept very easily. You can ask for a question, you can, uh, discuss it with the lecturer in the class. And I think, uh, it’s one of the main, uh, reason why I can keep up even in Taiwan. I got a straight A in Taiwan.
LEONG: Tell me about how did you end up, uh, going to, to Taiwan?
ANTON: So [00:06:00] in 2022, uh, when I was going from my. Fifth semester to sixth semester, my head of study program, Mr. At that time, he was, uh, telling me, telling the students there’s a double degree program going to Taiwan for the last three semester of their study.
And after that you can get a double degree, a degree from Taiwan and degree from Brawijaya, and. It was a partial scholarship, so we need, we still need to, uh, pay for the accommodation, the flight ticket, but the tuition fee is with, so the tuition fee is free in Brawijaya and in Taiwan.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So how, uh, how did you find the experience, first of all, the language, uh, so I know now that your, your Chinese is pretty good, but, uh, but did you learn, uh, did you learn Chinese in the past or did you learn only for this trip?
ANTON: So for the trip, [00:07:00] for my journey in Taiwan, I learn only two months, and it’s not imprint on my brain yet. Okay. So I struggle with the Chinese because especially with, uh, local student and also the local, uh, people in that place. And you see it’s a rural area, so people don’t usually use English. Even, even the students, they cannot use English.
So. Only the lecturer can use English. So I need to, uh, adapt that in that area. And I always use a translator like Google Translate or just, uh, body language. So just, uh, I just know from some few words like Zhè, Nà or something like that. Okay. I just, uh, when I buy food, I usually, uh, use Zhè, Zhè, Zhè.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So, so for the listener, I mean, Zhè means this and Nà means that. So, so it’s very good that, that you’re able to do that. I mean, a lot of people can’t, can’t survive. So then tell me about study. [00:08:00] So you, uh, in Indonesia, uh, versus, uh, Taiwan. What are the differences that you notice? Of course the language.
ANTON: Yeah. The language is different. So, uh, in Taiwan we use English, but in Indonesia we use Indonesian. Right. Okay. Okay. The, the culture. The culture in Taiwan, you can dress up whatever you want. Right. Even, even you can go by slippers. Uh, and also the shirt teacher in the classroom. Oh, right. But in Indonesia if you go with a t-shirt in classroom, you will automatically knock out from the classroom.
LEONG: You, you mean they kick you out of the class?
ANTON: Yeah, because t-shirt is not tolerated in Indonesia.
LEONG: Okay. And in Taiwan, are there things that are better there? Um,
ANTON: so the equipment and also the facilities in Taiwan is so much different, so, so much different in Taiwan.
In the laboratory, we can use anything that we want. Without any permission, but in Indonesia, in my [00:09:00] university especially, you need the permission from the lecturer and also permission from the laboratory assistant and something like that In Taiwan, there’s no need for that.
LEONG: Is it because it’s more conservative and more restrictive in Indonesia overall?
ANTON: I think it’s about money. Mm-hmm. Because laboratory equipment is pricey. Yeah. So you need, uh, uh, guidance to use the laboratory equipment, so,
LEONG: right. Okay. Yeah. You’ve done actually really well from what I hear. Uh, you had challenges as you were growing up in terms of mental health. Can you tell me about that and then how do you handle it?
ANTON: Okay, so I was diagnosed with bipolar in 2017 to 2018. At that time, my bipolar was so severe that the doctor said, uh, you are in a full blown bipolar. So at that time, uh, my, my little brother named Huda, he was, uh, two years old. Yeah. And, but he already got, uh, uh, [00:10:00] brain cancer, brain tumor. So, oh. After that, my, my brother passed away. I got depression for six months and manic stayed for six months also.
LEONG: Yeah. Sorry to hear that. Couldn’t have been easy. Uh, what happened with your brother?
ANTON: I actually have, uh, make peace with my brother accident. So my brother was named Huda. He was born in 2015. 2015 when I, uh, graduated from junior high school and I enter a senior high school.
I think Huda is a smart boy. He is a, he’s a genius. He’s a genius. So even when he was still at around one, one and a half, he already mimicked the parents and me, of course, because he used the his toys to mimic, what am I doing? So what am I doing is, uh, cooking. So he’s very interested in cooking. He mimicked with this, uh, childish, uh,
LEONG: behavior.
ANTON: Yeah. [00:11:00] Behavior. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. He is a genius guy. And, uh, when I, uh, start to take selfie with him, so I, even now I have the selfies with me. He, he already like, oh, this is a camera, so I need to pose, and something like that. So,
LEONG: yeah.
ANTON: Yeah, he was a genius.
LEONG: Yes. That’s a very smart kid. So tell me more then about how you handled it.
ANTON: I cannot handle it, so it’s just a matter of time. With time. Uh, suddenly I got, uh, manic fish and after that, uh, the doctor, the psychiatrist. Uh, give me me medication. And with the medication, uh, in time I got better and better. So I, I, I cannot handle it by myself.
LEONG: And how does it affect your, uh, your life and your studies?
ANTON: Yeah. Uh, for my studies in my depression phase, I cannot study at all. So usually I was in like three rankings from the app, right? But when I was in depression phase. My ranking [00:12:00] drops from rank two from below. So it was, uh, very, very, uh, disturbing my academic study at that time.
LEONG: Yeah. Okay. You had an episode in Taiwan.
ANTON: Yeah. Uh, I was depression in Taiwan depressive state in Taiwan. The reason why I cannot finish in Taiwan is because of the depression. So I didn’t go to the university for two months. Yeah. And because of that, my, uh, lecturer, my, uh, professor said, I think you need to go back to Indonesia and finish it there.
After you finish your, uh, depressive state and the manic state, you, you have to recover first. Then after that, they just send me home with my, uh, with my parents. So my, my father actually came to Taiwan to pick me up.
LEONG: What triggered the episode in Taiwan?
ANTON: Usually, uh, honestly, I don’t know. Maybe, maybe just, maybe because in Taiwan at that time when I was [00:13:00] in, uh, holiday season, I work as a cleaning service.
So I work at night. So you need to sleep on time and wake up on time when you have bipolar. And I think one of the reason why my bipolar, uh, is. Coming up the depression, I think it’s because I didn’t have enough sleep. And also, uh, when I was in Taiwan, there’s a period of time that I didn’t take medication because I, I think that I can handle this without medication, but it turns out that I cannot.
LEONG: Right. Who was with you at that time?
ANTON: Uh, at that time I was so depressed. I cannot go out. I don’t want to eat. For seven days straight. After seven days, my friends from Africa, uh, give me uh, uh, fried rice. He said, honey, honey, you should come down and eat. You are going to die if you don’t eat. Yeah, yeah.
After that I eat and I survive.
LEONG: Yeah. [00:14:00] So, so how long ago was that?
ANTON: It’s in 2022.
LEONG: Ah, right. Okay. Do you think about your condition as you go through, you know, day to day and then, you know, with your studies, do you, uh, do something different just to handle the, the condition
ANTON: In the depression step? I cannot study. I cannot even have a life that is meaningful. And I just, uh, you know, when, you know the depression right? You know, you know the depressive state, right?
LEONG: Yeah. I, I do.
ANTON: People with depression, their life is very, uh, imbalanced. You see, they always go in their room. They don’t want to talk to anybody. They don’t want to eat, they don’t want to drink, feeling anxious, and also they’re feeling, uh, guilty maybe.
LEONG: Yeah. It’s, it is something very common. I mean, I’ve been diagnosed with bipolar before and then, uh, my diagnosis have changed and I’ve. Uh, long-term treatments, uh, because of it. And even today, I think about, uh, conditions, you know, the [00:15:00] depression and the, the different things that it would actually impact on my life and have to adjust around that.
I have to say, based on how well you’ve done, uh, listening to you, uh, deal with your studies, you know, being able to go to Taiwan and so you have things, uh, put uh, put in place. So that’s, uh, very good of you. So tell us about what you are doing now. So you’ve obviously come back from, from Taiwan. Uh, you are finishing off your studies.
ANTON: Right now I’m finishing off my studies and what I’m currently doing right now is making a book. My third book, actually, my third book is about, uh, bipolar, my, my experience with bipolar. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I also build, uh, art development institution. Right now, it’s still a community in WhatsApp. The main, main goal of my community is to prepare for Golden Indonesia in 2045.
So there’s a, a program from the government. In 2045, we will have a demographic bonus. A lot of young people is going to be, uh, in a productive phase. [00:16:00] Yeah. And when I see our current young people, uh, their habits with the mindset, I think we can still do it better. Mm-hmm. We focus on the multilingual education, so we will have to learn about English, we have to run Chinese, and there’s a lot of, uh, different languages we will have to learn.
What my aim is, is I want to, uh, contribute to the development of the younger people, uh, for. Making the realization of that, uh, tagline A Golden Indonesia.
LEONG: Yeah. That’s very noble of you. So it’s, it’s great. I fully support it and I hope that, uh, that uh, that actually is successful. And, um, and we’ve tried to actually help you as much as we can through lifespan education.
But then tell me, uh, you know, what’s your dream? What’s, uh, the future that, uh, you hope to have?
ANTON: Okay, so my dream, I have a lot of dreams. One of my dream is [00:17:00] building, uh, a hospital for stem cells and cancer because I will reflect on my experience with my brother, little brother. Yeah. And also I want to have a mental health center, something like that, mental health issue center and something like that. Yeah, I have a lot of dreams.
LEONG: Okay. That’s very good. You know, for young people and uh, for young person like you to have ambition. So, so I applaud you for, for that. So a lot of us people that listen to this podcast, are our students thinking about going to university or just enter university? What would you advise? So somebody just, um, going into university, just what are the important things for the young person to know?
ANTON: Don’t be afraid of making mistake. Because making mistake is your pathway to success. You learn from your mistake. Just do whatever you want to do, but don’t be afraid of making mistake. Mistake is something that you want to embrace, and after that success will come to you.[00:18:00]
LEONG: Okay? That’s really good advice. And, uh, and you’ve actually shown it through your life that, uh, you’ve been able to overcome a lot of obstacles. Uh, you’ve been bold enough to do different things and actually come to where you are now. So I hope you, uh, every success. And, um, thank you for taking part in the podcast today.
ANTON: Yeah, thank you so much.
LEONG: We’ve spoken about mental health in this podcast many times, but here we see the impact you can have on a student’s life and why getting help is really important. We also see the resilience Anton has developed. And how it has inspired a lot of its dreams. Thank you for tuning into Student Life Unplugged.
If you’ve just found us, please listen back to series one and two to hear about lots more students from all over the world. And if you’ve enjoyed it, please share it with your friends or anyone starting out in their uni journey. Don’t forget, follow the [00:19:00] show. Catch you in the next episode.
SLU EP 4 – ZHOU CHINA JAPAN MASTERED TX
ZHOU: [00:00:00] The university life in China is the best. You can go anywhere. You can do anything you want. You can have a relationship. University is totally free. So that’s make lot of students losing control.
LEONG: Hi. Welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from their families and friends to their studies and their dreams today. Hear about student life in China, in Japan. From Zhou, who is Chinese, but he’s currently studying international relations in Japan, talks about his hometown, the outgoing people, and how the food is so spicy it can actually kill you.
We discover China’s strict school life with long hours of study and limited leisure time. What happens to some students when they finally taste the freedom of university? [00:01:00] Zhou talks about building long-term friendships. And we find out why he quit his initial degree in ship building. I first ask him about where he’s from.
ZHOU: The province is called Province in the south part in China. We eat spice food there and. People there,
LEONG: like kind of, uh, enthusiastic. My family’s Chinese, we came from, uh, down to Malaysia and so, so I know that part of the world. But tell us about, uh, Jiangxi. So you said that the people are enthusiastic. You know, what, what does that mean?
ZHOU: People, they’re, they don’t care too much about like normal manners. Maybe sometimes you will think they are just rude. Maybe you just. Stand there waiting for your traffic lights. Right. Somebody just come to you and say, Hey buddy, like, how the weather? Can you show me the road? Or kind of like, uh , I don’t know how to say that. Like, flirt.
LEONG: Flirt. Okay. Yeah. So, so very relaxed. Very um, very friendly. Yeah.
ZHOU: Yes.
LEONG: Okay. Um, then, uh, you mentioned spicy food. So, you know, food in [00:02:00] China is quite different in different parts. So tell us about spicy food. The,
ZHOU: uh, like the people there like can eat. Spice food most in the whole China, I think. Mm-hmm. Our food is just a pure spicy without nothing. Like you might heard of Sichuan province, they are mala like, mouth numbing spicy. Right.
LEONG: But our food, it can kill you. Well, so that’s, that’s, I mean, around the world, people heard of the, the mala tongue and then things like that. Yes. But, uh, but if you’re saying it’s worse than that, uh, I, I don’t know if I’m game to try.
So, okay. Yeah. So now landscape, what’s, what’s the landscape like there? You know, what the city is like, what the countryside is like? Uh, scenery, where I live, it’s kind of totally city. It’s a town, but it’s totally
ZHOU: like civilized and modernized.
LEONG: Are they still remaining traditional, um, uh, landmarks and, and things like that in where you lived?
ZHOU: Everywhere you can see a tower for like a landmark. Of course we have, we have a building, it’s called Tengwanga , and it has, it has a [00:03:00] famous Asian article called Tengwanga. It’s well known by all Chinese. It’s a landmark of the whole Jiangxi province.
LEONG: Alright, um, now then, uh, celebrations, traditional celebrations.
I’ll be interested to know, you know, where you are, um, whether they are similar celebrations compared to the, the rest of the world that, that I know.
ZHOU: In my hometown, or even the whole Jiangxi Province, we just follow the normal celebrations. Spring Festival we gather together like, uh, wherever I work or wherever I live.
I come back to home, like spend time with my family. So we get around to have a delicious food, we talk, we laugh. It will last for about two weeks. Right. Okay. And during that time, people don’t have to work, they don’t have to like study. And you can also get money if you are young.
LEONG: Do you give um. The red packets?
ZHOU: Yes. Uh, red envelopes. Right?
LEONG: For people that don’t know, I mean, most Chinese people know about the red packets, but the people, uh, who [00:04:00] are not in Chinese culture may not know that. Can you explain, uh, these red packets? Basically it’s, uh, envelope in
ZHOU: red color. So in the Spring Festival, young people will get it from the seniors and inside that it’s money, it’s cash, it’s currency.
Amount of money is different. So maybe somebody will give you $20. I mean, maybe just people just give you one or two.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yep. Um, so other types of, uh, festival that you can think of?
ZHOU: We have festival called Qingming Festival. It’s kind of like, uh, is
LEONG: that Qingming?
ZHOU: Yeah. Uh, they to, uh, give something to the somebody who already passed.
Mm-hmm. You have to bring something like fruit. Some something edible to the grave and pray for them. And also pray for yourself like, like, bless me for my. Life, work, anything. Right? Okay. Yeah. So
LEONG: now how, uh, how big is your family?
ZHOU: My family only have three members, my father, my mother, and me. Okay. So I’m, I’m a single child.
LEONG: Yeah. Okay. So how, what was that like? Um, so there’s [00:05:00] a lot of, um, people in China that’s your age who grow up with, uh,
ZHOU: yeah. Almost my generation is what, single kids due to the policy, right? Yeah,
LEONG: yeah.
ZHOU: During one period of time, like Chinese government will not allow a family to have. Two and more kids? ’cause the population explosion,
LEONG: has that changed?
ZHOU: Yeah, it’s already changed. Okay. Nowadays you can, uh, you can have three kids ’cause uh, our population is declined.
LEONG: Okay. So then, uh, when you were young, uh, tell me about schooling.
ZHOU: I think Chinese school time is really high pressure. Mm-hmm. This kind of like, hell, if you look back to it, but way you in it, you’ll not like, feel that so much. But once you get out of it and you come out to see another world, you will think, oh, that totally hell.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yeah, so, so then it’s only after you left the country that you started comparing?
ZHOU: After I go to college in China, I start to feel that the days I have spent [00:06:00] in the school, I mean high school.
It’s totally hell. It’s it’s disaster. I mean,
LEONG: right. Can, can you explain that? Um, I think, uh, that is, uh, uh, the pressure of Chinese families, uh, put on, on children.
ZHOU: Oh, not, not from family. It’s totally from school. So, oh. If you are a high school student, you have to wake up at about six, even earlier, and go to school, and you won’t end your school until like 10:00 PM in the evening.
That means you spend like, uh, most time in your school for study and eat. So you don’t, you don’t have any time for your like, social, like network or just for fun. Mm-hmm. Your teachers and your parents will tell you, you have to be diligent and you have to be hardworking unless you can’t go to the universities and if you can’t go to universities, you can find a good job and you can’t feed yourself.
LEONG: Mm. Okay. So this is for all the, all the children,
ZHOU: I mean. 99% because 1%, like, I mean, kids, they have [00:07:00] other ways to go to college, maybe donation or we could just starting overseas. Something like that, but for normal people, most of us, yeah, it leads,
LEONG: so, so that does sound like a very intense pressure. Um, you know, as you say, health, you know, how did you handle it, you know, as a, as a child, and how did your friends handle it?
ZHOU: So we always have a way out, you know, so we have various ways to please ourself. I mean, teachers told you like you have to be hardworking, but you can pretend it. Pretend to be hardworking. All we got is not just like textbooks. We can also got something like a smartphone, but it’s not allowed by school rules,
LEONG: right?
You
ZHOU: have to use it sneak. And also we also buy other books like a magazine, like comic books. Right to spend our times.
LEONG: Yeah. So, so you get other material besides what is what, what the school prescribed? Are they in school, libraries and you know, where do you get this material?
ZHOU: Outside of the school it’s kind of like a mini world. You can buy anything like tech, [00:08:00] shop, books, shops, and also like the small, um, clinic. So school can’t keep you in school all the time. So someday you will finally have some, some breaks and you can go out to buy something you want. But of course if you enter the school again, the security guys will check you.
Mm. Check you for your smartphones or something. Cigarettes or just books now not allowed to bring in. Right? But you have to use your way to take the,
LEONG: okay, so the, something like the smartphone, the, uh, do they come from, uh, from your parents? Uh, the, do you know where, where do kids get their smartphone from?
ZHOU: Yeah. Some, some kids get the smartphone from parents. ’cause they, the parents are not that like, uh. Stubborn. Mm-hmm. They’re, they’re wise, but some kids just buy these, uh, smartphones from their like, uh, money.
LEONG: Okay. So now the, so you are in the school grounds for that long. You know what the, so it’s actually a whole life in there.
So what happens with like, lunch and, and dinner and food [00:09:00] and um, exercise and, and things like that during such an intense day.
ZHOU: My high school is really big, so we have more than one dining hall. We have three dining halls, and we also have all like sport fields. Sport fields. You can run, you can joke, you can like play football, but that time is really, really little. I mean, limited.
LEONG: Okay. Uh, now, so then, uh, what’s your parents’ influence on your, your studies?
ZHOU: My mother didn’t do much since on my study, but my father really like, uh, gave me some pressure. I can say, especially in high school, he told me, you ha I have to work like a study really hard to go to a good school. And sometimes I think I had the depression. I had depression in my high school life.
LEONG: You, you knew it back then, or, or you only when you think back that you thought you had, you have that.
ZHOU: When I look back to my high school life, I think I was, yeah, yeah. Kind of depressed. But now [00:10:00] our, our like relationship is really good. Alright.
LEONG: Um, so now you, you, uh, had this, uh, experience. It’s, uh, very high pressure, but um, you know, you got through it. Yes. And, um, and so now as you get to, you know, secondary school, uh, what did you choose to study and why?
ZHOU: I was studying ship making and, and I don’t think it fit me so. This time, I, I wanna try another way. Now I will study in like the international relationships.
LEONG: Why did you choose Ship Building? Even that one’s unusual.
ZHOU: I didn’t choose that my father choose that for me. So after you go to the university, you realize it’s not what you want.
LEONG: Ship Building Actually, I’ve never heard of it in, uh, universities out here. So is that very common in China?
ZHOU: It’s not common, but like.
According to my father, it should have a bright future.
LEONG: Right? Okay. Yeah. So, so you got into university in China? Yes. And then, uh, how many years did you do that before you stopped? About three [00:11:00] years. Three years. Wow. That, that’s a lot. Um, you decided to go to Japan. You know why Japan?
ZHOU: Japan has really a deep influence in my life. Comic books or just anime or music, uh, movies. So after a deeply discussion with my like family, we decide to like study overseas also, like the culture is kind of similar.
LEONG: And why international relations?
ZHOU: So I have been interested with international relations. For a long time, like basically every day, uh, I watch news about the war, about the diplomacy.
Right. Okay.
LEONG: What, what do you hope to do, um, what career are you thinking of, of pursuing?
ZHOU: I hope to be, uh, like diplomat in the future. Also, I’m preparing for my, like civil examination. It just to become a civil servant, it’s a really like stable job. My parents want me to be a civil servant. Really [00:12:00] bad.
LEONG: Yeah.
Now what, what about your friends? Uh, so when you went to Japan, uh, did you go by yourself? Um, did, did a lot of friends, uh, go with you?
ZHOU: No, I, I came to Japan all by my myself ’cause it’s COVID-19 period, you know, and that time China, China is kind of, yeah. Separation of everybody.
LEONG: Well, that would’ve been difficult time.
The, uh, tell me about that, you know, what was uni like, uh, during, uh, during COVID and, um, and especially for you changing uni.
ZHOU: So, I came to Japan in 2020, so that time the segregation is not that hard. It’s, it’s most disappeared. But if you want to like go abroad, you have to have you like, uh, have a check. To get, uh, like proof that you are okay. Mm. But before that, we have almost one year separation, so every family shouldn’t go out unless you get approved, you get approval. [00:13:00]
LEONG: Right. Okay. No. During that time, the, the early stages of, uh, COVID, a lot of people blame China for, uh, for the upstart. Did, did you feel that, um, during that time,
ZHOU: yeah, that time, like people in China.
Didn’t say much thing. But nowadays we look back to that time. We blamed governments a lot. Yeah. Even inside, I mean, I mean, government just was wasted our time and wasted our money. Mm-hmm. They were taking advantage of us.
LEONG: So during that time then you went overseas also, and you would’ve seen the other side of, uh, of, uh, people’s, uh, view about, um, uh, about COVID.
Uh, was it different inside China and, and outside of China? The news about the COVID.
ZHOU: Yeah, so just Japan, my personal experience, so people, people in Japan don’t care much so much about injection, I mean vacine, and you can take injection if you want, but if you don’t want, that’s okay. [00:14:00] But in China, this kind of mandatory.
But I mean, in Japan, like most people that time were wearing a mask, uh, the same as China. Okay.
LEONG: I’d like to get into your student life, you know, what was university like, you know, with your friends, like, you know, social, uh, your social activities, you know, the getting together with friends. How’s that in China and then now you in Japan, is it very different?
ZHOU: Yeah, it’s, it’s very different. Students like in, in China, I, I told you it’s high pressure, but you can make lots of friends ’cause you live together, you eat together. And I have to say like the university life in China is the best. University has everything just like gym and the restaurants, like even theater.
You can go anywhere and you can do anything you want. You can have a relationship. You can, you can go, go out for dating.
LEONG: So that’s a big change then from school? Yeah. Uh,
ZHOU: before you go to university, you can also date someone, [00:15:00] but you have to hide it. If your teachers know, they will like, uh, do some punishment and tell your parents and it’s not good, it will affect your study.
LEONG: So it’s putting pressure. So, uh, family don’t like it either.
ZHOU: Most families don’t like it. University is totally free. So, so that, that make lot of students losing the control.
LEONG: Oh, right. How, how does that show in when they lose control?
ZHOU: So, for example, they don’t go to classes anymore. They spend all their time for computer games and also somebody just start to like, uh, drink became a junk.
LEONG: So that, that sounds, uh, like, um, they need a lot of support. Does the university provide support for this type of, um, adjustments?
ZHOU: No. Uh, university didn’t provide any support, but they get support from family and university doesn’t care about that much. So if you don’t come to school. You can get your credits
LEONG: and, and so they don’t pay much [00:16:00] attention to, uh, to, uh, graduation rates.
ZHOU: Yeah. Uh, but Chinese universities can easily graduate it.
LEONG: Ah, right. Okay.
ZHOU: You, if you want to enter, uh, university, it’s kind of difficult, but once you, once you enter it, it’s easily graduated.
LEONG: Is um, is Japan harder or easier in terms of the academic standard?
ZHOU: So universities in Japan is really small scale.
The entrance examinations is kind of easier, but, uh, but after that you have paid more attention to your study.
LEONG: Okay. Um, so now the, so you are in Japan now, how many more years to go? Uh, for, to, to finish?
ZHOU: I will graduate next year.
LEONG: Mm.
ZHOU: But how many years in Japan? I can say maybe just have a job in Japan and settle myself in Japan. I mean that, that will be forever.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So, so you are looking to stay in Japan? Uh, to, [00:17:00] to work,
ZHOU: yeah. I mean both way. I mean, back into China or stay in Japan. It’s both fine for me. Yeah.
LEONG: Right. Okay. Yeah, because you said you wanted to go into civil service. Um, yeah, yeah. I’m flexible or, or is that your, or is it your parents want you to go into civil service, um, and, and you are flexible?
ZHOU: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
LEONG: Okay. Um, so, so what do you hope for your, for your future?
ZHOU: I think future is kind of a long word. I prefer like five or 10 years, so Right. If in five or 10 years I, I think I will have a stable job and maybe not get married. Maybe I will date someone but not get married, I think. Right.
LEONG: Is that common to, uh, to hold off getting married?
ZHOU: Yes. Nowadays it’s common, but back to 10 or 20 years. It’s very strange. It’s weird. And your parents will kill you if you didn’t get married.
LEONG: Right? So, so what age are a lot of people getting married
ZHOU: in China? This common age? It’s [00:18:00] about like 27 or 28. In Japan, maybe like 30 or 35.
LEONG: Okay. Now, besides, uh, dating, uh, I’d like to get your advice to the students that are just entering university and especially students that might be from China.
Thinking about coming to Japan, you know, what would your advice be having gone through? Your experience. Let’s, let’s start with going into university from, uh, from school.
ZHOU: If you are a student in China, I, I would advise before you go to university, you better like, um, get a nice outfit and a nice hairstyle to make people have a good first impression,
LEONG: right?
ZHOU: And come to like study. You don’t have to work that hard. Maybe just 50% effort. And enjoy your life. Enjoy your life in high school, but in university, sorry, it might be the most beautiful times in your whole life. Mm. And where your roommates, that’s really [00:19:00] important. You, your roommates will be the, like the lifespan friends to you.
LEONG: Uh, can you explain that? So, so you obviously found, uh, quite deep. Uh, bonds are differentiate during that time.
ZHOU: One class will have like 20 or 30, 30 people, but you, you will just leave with other three people in the same door. For the whole four years. So that’s really important. You have to make good relationship with them.
But once you get good relationships, you guys just like brothers, like the brother from another mother. Mm.
LEONG: Okay. That’s really deep bonds. Yeah. Okay. So then, uh, lastly, the advice for people who might be, uh, considering studying in Japan,
ZHOU: first of all, like, study your Japanese is really important for school life or just like, uh.
Daily life. Japanese is really important ’cause Japanese people don’t speak English that frequently. And the second thing I [00:20:00] would say, keep your personality, but don’t be so sharp.
LEONG: Oh, what? What do you mean?
ZHOU: If you be so outgoing, lots of Japanese people will think you are aggressive. And once they think like that way.
It’s really hard to make friends with them. So you have to be a little mild.
LEONG: Yeah. Milder. Yeah.
ZHOU: Yeah. Japanese really loves mild characters.
LEONG: Alright, well, uh, thank you Zhou. Yeah. I think you’ve, uh, told us a lot of really interesting things about China and then you. About your journey into Japan as well, so I want to thank you.
Thank you guys too for your invitation.
It was really interesting speaking Zhou about his views on life. You can tell how much he loves university, but he’s also practical in terms of his future. Thank you for tuning into Student [00:21:00] Life Unplugged. If you’ve just found us, please listen to other episodes where you can hear from lots more students from all over the world.
And if you’ve enjoyed it, please share it with your friends or anyone else starting out in their uni journey. Don’t forget to follow the show. I will catch you in the next episode.
SLU EP 5 AVA NIGERIA transcript 1
AVA: [00:00:00] I think the negative side of being a teacher’s child was that a lot of teachers knew me, so a lot was expected from me. Anytime a teacher saw my surname name, they’ll send someone to call me in my class and ask me why I failed my exam or why I failed the. Test or why I did not write my notes.
LEONG: Hi. Welcome to Student Life Unplugged, a space, where young people from all over the world talk openly about their diverse lives from the families and friends to their studies and dreams. In this episode, we speak to Ava from Nigeria, who has a degree in English language and literature, and still considering her masters.
In the conversation discover the country’s rich culture. English is mixed with tribal languages. States fight over ownership of recipes. She talks about the lack of qualified teachers in the education system, [00:01:00] forcing many students to self study to succeed, but also how this strong desire to succeed and excel is deeply ingrained aspect of Nigerian culture.
Ava currently lives in Abuja, the capital, uh, she’s from Eddo State in south of the country. I ask her if it’s very different from state to state.
AVA: Oh, it is. It is, it is. You know how you have, um, in India, you have Mumbai, you have New Deli. Okay, so the same, so the capital of Nigeria is Abuja.Where every other state comes to, like people from other places come to residing.
Okay.
LEONG: So some sort of hub.
AVA: Yes. And those states is like one of the minority tribes. They are both states in Nigeria, just major and minor.
LEONG: No, it’s very similar. Uh, for me as a Chinese person where my grandfather came from, China is again, you know, big country, uh, [00:02:00] different provinces in, uh, China’s actually very different.
So. So then tell me about life. For people who may not know much about Nigeria, let’s. Introduce them to, to that. So, uh, what is life like? Let’s start with food. Everybody is interested in food.
AVA: Oh, okay. I, I’m sure by now you should know that there are two countries that fight for. Food in Africa here, that’s the Ghanaians and in Nigerians, we fight over our local made delicacy. We call it Jollof rice. It’s like a mixture of tomatoes, peppers, onion, you know, all those spices. Mm-hmm. With like a side dish of salads and plantains. Like fried meat, fried fishes, anything you could think of, you could mix it in. But the funny thing is that Jollof rice did not originate from Nigeria or from Ghana, but we keep on fighting about it.
Apart from Jollof rice, we love Swallow. It’s [00:03:00] like, um, pounded yam. eba, semovita, amala. These are just grains, grounded grains that we mix with hot water and it forms into a mold, and then we eat it with soup.
Mm-hmm.
AVA: So we are really big on food here in Nigeria. We also enjoy like street snacks, like in Lagos now that’s the center of trade here in Nigeria, most of the indigenous, there are people that stay there. They are known for eating, they call it agege bread and beans. Like, it’s like bread. It’s sort of like sour and sweet at the same time. Yeah, it’s hot and then they mix it in with beans, white beans. Like still is a meat is poured on the beans and people eat it and it tastes so nice.
LEONG: My mouth is watering. Even just listening, you describe, describe the food and, and you’re so enthusiastic about it too. So, but, um, uh, is there, uh, one language in, in Nigeria or it’s [00:04:00] actually quite diverse,
AVA: uh, primary language here in Nigeria. It’s actually English, you know, since we got colonized, but we have different tribes. Like we have Edo, we have Ebos, we have Hauses, we have Yorubas, we have Nupe, we have Tiv. We have a lot of tribes, but we speak different languages like the Yorubas now they speak like aka, like ‘e kaaro’ it’s like saying Good morning. Then my tribe, that’s my mom’s side. That’s the Edo. We see ‘Obowie’. That’s good morning.
And sometimes if you check the languages, you see that maybe like one or two words sounds alike to show that we actually stem from each other. Mm. Also, Pidgin language, it’s like our broken version of English. I think it was like, um, a trade language that was [00:05:00] produced when Nigerians and some other foreign country needed to make contact in trade.
So that was the language that was formed because that country could not understand us. Neither could we understand them. So we had to like merge the both languages together and that was all formed Pidgin. Let me give you an example of Pidgin. “How far? How you dey?” It’s like saying hello, how are you? Any tribe in Nigeria, you must understand Pidgin
If you don’t know English, then you know Pidgin, it is either one of the two.
LEONG: Oh. So that’s, that’s quite amazing. And what’s, what are families like over there?
AVA: So here in Nigeria, we we’re quite big on family. Like we, we have, like me for example, I have extended families sometimes when we gather together for like, um, during the Christmas holidays or Easter or any events we have in the family, I can’t tell who is who until someone goes to, this is your Daddy’s brother, this is your uncle from your father’s side. [00:06:00] This is your auntie from your great grandmother’s side. So yes, so we are big on family. Most times when we come together, you see like 50 30, 100 people together. Wow. My family. Now I can say I have two sets of families, my family that brought me up, right? My mom, my dad, and then I have two siblings, a boy and a girl.
Then the family I was born into, my biological family, my mom, my dad, and four brothers, and the last born and the only girl, right?
LEONG: May I ask, uh, the, the two families? So that’s unusual. How does that come about?
AVA: Let me give you a backstory. I lost my biological dad when I was, I think, six or seven, and my mom too, followed like, I think three years later or so before my dad died. He brought me to his auntie. That brought him up. So I grew up under her as her child because I was the youngest in the family, so I grew up with her own children. So now I take them as my siblings, though. I still [00:07:00] communicate with my siblings from my father’s side, because my biological father had three wives.
Yeah. He had my mom, he had my eldest brother’s mother, and then he had, I think the third child’s mother. So he had four boys. And one girl. So I still communicate with my four brothers. They all have their families and they’re both in different states here in Nigeria, but I am with my family here.
LEONG: Yeah, no, what you said about the family actually reminds me of mine.
So my family, uh, my, uh, mom and dad are both one of nine children in each one of ’em. So that I have this huge family and, and we keep very close contact. Like on my father’s side, we have complete family tree from my great-grandfather and we keep contact with each other. So there’s about 160 of us. Wow.
And um, I was telling Elisa, our producer, that we have a family reunion in Melbourne at the end of the year and we actually have a committee organizing the, the reunion.
AVA: Wow. So that must [00:08:00] been great.
LEONG: So it’s something you and I share this importance of families. Yeah. But tell me about the, uh, the cities and the country and the places that you grew up in, like in terms of scenery and, you know, houses, architecture, stuff like that.
AVA: So here in Abuja we have beautiful estates. They are big on lands. They’re big on houses. It is divided into three parts. The village parts, the town parts. Then the town town part, we call it like the main part. That’s where we have bank of industry. We have some like high tech places where I am now. We call it like the village part of Abuja.
It’s not like it’s a village, but it, it is more quiet than in bustling city. You find people farming around because this is where the main indigenous of Abuja stay.
LEONG: What, what do people farm?
AVA: My mom has a farm,
LEONG: right?
AVA: She farms in yams. Potatoes, sweet potatoes and corn and ground oats and [00:09:00] melon.
Okay.
AVA: We have like, um, zoo parks, we have like amusement parks.
We have, we have mainly, we have eat trees. Like if you want to eat anything you can think of, you’ll find it here in Abuja. And then we have like museums, art museums, some history museums. They were very beautiful.
LEONG: Right. Okay. What kind of festivals do you celebrate in Nigeria?
AVA: The two major religions, Christian and Muslims have different holidays and different festive period. Like currently we are in the Muslim festive, their Big Sallah. We call it the Big Sallah where they get to eat rams, share gifts meets and friends and families, and then. Um, I think they just finished fasting. Yeah. So they’re getting to the first period. Ee have, uh, Christmas, we have Easter.
Um, like in my state, that’s Eddo state. The last week of December and the first week of January are very sacred for us. [00:10:00] We celebrate our culture.
LEONG: Yeah.
AVA: We come out in our attires in our traditional attires and the younger ones painting their bodies and dancing on the street. Yeah.
LEONG: What was religion like over there?
AVA: I, I think if you hear from me, if you listen from the news, you find out that, yeah, I think we are being torn apart by religion. Oh, I, I myself, I am a Christian. I mean, I was raised in a Christian home, so I go to church as serve God, I love God. So, but the thing is that we sometimes, or we most times, confuse religion and God. The normal way is to serve God and then love like him. You know, love every other person, but people now turn this religion into like a twisted version of what’s in their head.
LEONG: So, so when all of you come together in on campus, um, is that religion a big part of, of that student life?
AVA: Um, one thing that I love about being in Nigerian is the fact that [00:11:00] youths, young youths do not allow our religion or upbringing.
To dictate friendship or to dictate our movement. That’s great. Like me now, I’m a Christian, but I have Muslim best friends because right from my secondary school into university, I’ve had good Muslim friends in the universities. Young people, when they come together, you see different people from different religions, different tribes speaking different languages.
They’re all together in, in circle. They have tight friends. You see Ebo, you see Yorubas friends, you see Hausa friends coming together and being, and making a group and becoming like the best of friends.
LEONG: Yeah. No, that, that’s, that’s great. So let’s get into your, your education. So you tell me about what that’s like your, you know, primary school, secondary school.
AVA: The primary school I attended was my parents primary school. My parents are civil servants and they are teachers. They run a private primary secondary school. Right. We were little princesses and princess [00:12:00] in the school because our parents owned the school, so we could be here anyhow. But primary school was fun. My first friends were made from primary school, but I still have very close friends from secondary school. Some of my best memories are from secondary school because I attended a boarding school for the six years I was in secondary school, so I was not staying at home with my parents. I lived in schoo. Three times.I came back home, were like Christmas holidays. Or Easter holidays, like one to four weeks.
Okay,
AVA: so secondary school was beautiful. Like sometimes I dream, I am still in secondary school and I remember some of my friends and when I wake up in morning I could take my phone and like chat them and just be like, Hey, you remember what happened when we were in school and everything. I attended an all girls school. We even had services in the school, like we had church. Um, in my senior year, my. SS2. I was a house prefect, so I was in charge of other younger students [00:13:00] and some of my mates, we, we had six houses. Yeah. So I was in Emerald House, that was a green house, and we, we were best known for sports.
We had runners in my house. We had, um, footballers in my house. We produced a lot of prefects. Yes. During my time I had the best of experiences during those times. I had my seniors who coached me and I had very wonderful teachers. We still communicate with them when I see them. I remember so many things like they made us cry.
They made us laugh. They taught us a lot. My teachers were lovely.
LEONG: What, what is it like, uh, being a child of a teacher?
AVA: It was a different treatment altogether. Anytime I needed something, I could just go to his office, tell his secretary that I wanted to talk to him, and sometimes my mom would prepare food from the house and give it to him, and then he would bring it to me and most of my friends would eat them.
We used to share this meals, but I think the negative side of being a teacher’s. [00:14:00] child is ’cause that a lot of teachers knew me, so a lot was expected from me. Anytime a teacher saw my son name Yeah. And saw my name, they’ll be like, ah, is this no? So, so, so and so’s child. Okay. And then they’ll send someone to call me my class and ask me why I failed my exam or why I failed the test or why I did not write my notes. So anytime I saw some of my teachers, I will always avoid them.
LEONG: So tell, tell me more about this, uh, this pressure, uh, of, of studying. So what does it mean to you to actually have that pressure to perform?
AVA: I think now that I’ve grown up, I’ve realized that I work more under pressure. Like currently I write news for a news media, like I, I write weekend news for them and I found out that since they give me deadlines. I’ve done most of my best works in those deadlines. You get me? So I, I work more under pressure, so I think from secondary school, then the pressure to study and [00:15:00] pass and come out at the top of my class has made me very dedicated now that I’ve grown up. Then in secondary school we had these, um, weekly assessments in maths and in English, and then at the end of the week there’s a general assembly where they call the best three and the worst three. If you’re among the worst three, you get flogged in front of the assembly of more than 500 students. Mm-hmm. It’s very humiliating and embarrassing because you’ll not be able to share your face again. So because of that pressure, because of all those things they did, we strive to be the best. Every parent was always telling their child, be the best in your class. So imagine if you have a lot of bests, you have to be the best. So yes.
LEONG: Does it still happen now in in Nigeria?
AVA: No. A lot has changed. Like education has turned around. It has become a norm not to beat kids any longer. Yeah. But in some schools, if you really do something bad, they could cane you, not cane [00:16:00] you. Or they could just beat you on your hands and tell you that what you’ve done is not good. Or they could send you back home.
LEONG: Yeah. There are pressures in order for you to perform and, and you know, to be the best as you said. Are, are there also pressure, certain types of careers that is very highly valued in, in Nigeria that most students actually want to pursue?
AVA: Everybody wants to be a nurse. Oh, a nurse or a doctor.
They want to work under the medical field because you have more opportunities of going abroad to study and having a better life.
LEONG: Okay.
AVA: But we have like three or four major careers that people want to go into. That’s Law, Medicine, I think engineering, and then IT. Everybody wants to work with computers because they bring more money and then it has a lot of opportunities,
LEONG: but you didn’t choose any of them.Tell, tell me then about your path, you know, from your very rich, uh, experiences. What did you [00:17:00] choose at university and, and what, where are you now in your studies?
AVA: Alright. Before you get into university here, there are some exams you need to write. We call them the WAEC, that’s the West African Examinations or the NECO or JAMB, that’s the joint admission matriculation board. So you write three of these exams and it is these three exams that determine which university you are going to. So when I was going into university, I had a chance of picking four courses. That I would want to do. I went for law and English language.
So the school I picked at that time, they had no accredited law. They didn’t have lecturers for law. So. I, I had to leave the course. I had to go for English language, pure English language. So I did two majors. I did English language and literature, because those were things I, I, I mean, I, I love to read and I love to write.
So those were the things that fired me on. So when I got to my first year, I [00:18:00] enjoyed it because then. We had a lot of novels to read. We had a lot of things to write, which I was so happy to do. Then when I got to my third year in school, the course they were supposed to teach me was not what they were teaching me.
The school did not have foreign teachers. They didn’t have like good amenities to use to teach us. They were just teaching us based on Nigerians English, so we had to do a lot of self study. Because when it comes to the exam, they’ll ask you questions that they’ve never taught you before. So yeah.
LEONG: Did you do a lot of, uh, uh, study groups, um, did you study with, uh, other students
AVA: In the university we have this, we call it 9.30, so 12:00 AM to like. Three or 4:00 AM the lecture halls in our schools are open, so we go there to study. We do group studies. I did enjoy group study, but I prefer personal study time because there’s nothing like going with my friends and I’ll concentrate. So it’s not possible.
LEONG: Yeah. Are you still choosing your masters or, uh, have you decided on a
AVA: I have like six to seven [00:19:00] courses I want to pick, but the major ones I want to go for, um, International Relations. Or communications and journalism. Those are one I want to go to, go for. That is why currently I have decided to go into, do a bit of news writing so that I’ll have like a little background of what I’m going to do.
Yeah. But for International Relations, I am already sending out applications for internships in some kind of, um, institutions and organizations. So I’m waiting for good news for that. Yeah.
LEONG: What do you see for yourself, you know, why choose these courses? Um, do you have a clear vision or you’re still exploring?
AVA: I have a clear vision, but I am still exploring because I can’t put all my eggs in one basket. But for why I am picking, um, International Relations is because. I have this strong passion to work for people. Like I want to be involved in people’s culture. Yeah, I want to know what makes them them. I want to get involved [00:20:00] in the politics of countries and world and then help out the same way the, um, UNICEFs the United Nations, the WHO and all those organizations are helping people.
That is what I want to do because during my first degree, I had the chance, the opportunity of joining, um, an international organization, ISEC I and a couple of my friends we joined and it was just life changing. We went for conferences in different places, like we traveled outside, we met people, we did a lot of things.
We organized events. We went to visit people. We, did things that I would’ve never thought I could do or I would have the opportunity to do. I did it there for the news media now that I’m working for. So most of my works requires me going out to talk to people about their experiences. And then editing it, accumulating it, and submitting it and making it up into the story.
So I enjoy doing things like that.
LEONG: Right. [00:21:00] It’s very noble what you’re hoping to do, especially the, the impact that you would have, you know, either international relations or in journalism. But, okay, let’s go back to your uni days. So, so those beginning times, you know, because a lot of our listeners are people that had just gotten to uni or actually thinking about going to uni.
Looking back at your, uh, your experiences, you know, what are important things that, that you did back then, you know, what worked, what didn’t work? What was those starting few years like?
AVA: Okay. Most times I catch myself saying, if I were to go back, what would I tell myself or what would I want myself to do?
I would tell myself not to be scared of making friends. I’ll also say, pick a program of study that you can do. You know, don’t let someone pick a program or study for you, not even your parents. Mm-hmm. I’ve had a lot of friends that had the same experiences. Their parents told them, pick this course, and then they, in their second and third year, they ended up hating it.
And then when it comes to doing your final projects, you don’t know what to [00:22:00] do. You don’t know what you spent four years doing. You don’t know what you spent five years studying. Yeah. So if you are going into university, pick a study that you are good at. Like me, I am good at reading. I’m good at writing and I’m good at speaking to people so English language was like something that called me. Yes, I could have gone for mass communications or journalism, but at that time I did not know that this was where it was going to lead me to so I picked the next best thing. And then when you get to University get involved in everything. Mm-hmm. Do everything as long as it is positive, as long as it’s going to impacting you.
Then do everything. Get involved in group hangouts, group studies. In fact, if you can even get involved in politics in your school, you can run for a school position. Sorry. That’s one of the thing, I regret the fact that there were a lot of things I could have done. Yeah. But I was like. What would this person think?
I was always like, who will go with me? There are a lot of places I would’ve gone to. There are a lot of [00:23:00] communities I would’ve joined that would’ve helped me like a lot right now. Hmm.
LEONG: All those are really great advice. Um, especially the being open to experiences and finding your own path. For us as, uh, as lecturers, we usually see, uh, people focus a bit too early.
Even some people now in high school, they focus, but the point of school and university is to give you all those broad experiences and it’s. You know, you need to experience all of those before you know what actually is is useful for you. So, so like I said, that’s great advice. Um, and I wanna thank you, uh, for taking part in today’s podcast and, um, I’m sure a lot of our listeners will learn a lot from that.
Um,
AVA: I’m happy to be here.
LEONG: I loved hearing from Ava, the strong family ties and views on religion. You get a sense people there really strive to improve their lives and I’m really intrigued to know where she will end up. [00:24:00] Thank you for tuning into Student Life Unplugged. If you’ve just found us, please listen to other episodes where you can hear from lots more other students from all over the world.
And if you’ve enjoyed it, please share it with your friends or just anyone starting out in their uni journey. Don’t forget to follow the show. Catch you in the next episode.
SLU EP 6 – ESRA KOSOVO JORDAN MASTERED TX
ESRA: [00:00:00] I did not decide to put hijab to cover myself just because my mom is covered or my aunt is covered. No, I studied it. I thought about it and I thought about my position as a woman in society. I don’t wanna be judged for my body, for my looks, for my makeup. But I wanna be judged for who I am as a person, for my achievements, for my contribution to society.
LEONG: Hi. Welcome to the Student Life Unplugged Space, where young people from all the world talk openly about their diverse lives, from the families and friends to their studies and dreams. In this final episode of this series, we meet Esra, who’s from Kosovo. Currently studying theology and Islamic legislation in Jordan.
Her first degree was in software design. In our conversation we discussed Kosovo’s rich, diverse culture and what school life was [00:01:00] like during the war. She describes a life in Jordan now quite different to what we hear in the mainstream media, and she explains why everyone should know their language, the meaning behind their own scriptures.
At first, ask her to tell me about where she’s from.
ESRA: I am from Prizren. Uh, it’s in the south of Kosovo. It’s a actually very touristic city is in historical landscapes and I’m originally Albanian, like the Kosovan people are Albanian as well. It’s a very beautiful country and at the same time, east European countries are a little bit different from Western European countries in the culture wise.
For example, we can say we are like a bridge between the east and west,
LEONG: right?
ESRA: We value more like the family connections, like big families, like it’s not like one, two kids, like seven, eight kids type of [00:02:00] situation and Right. Yeah. And this means that you have a lot of cousins. Like a lot of hours playing outside, of course after school.
’cause we have strict parents that like, of course they are kind of Asians in that sense that they prioritize the, the success in academic.
LEONG: Right. I know that feeling.
ESRA: Yeah. Yeah. Asians would understand us more on that.
LEONG: Uh, so the people there, what kind of languages do you speak?
ESRA: We speak Albanian. Albanian language is special in a sense that when we look at the language tree, Albanian, actually it’s tree on its own.
Okay. It’s not actually connected to any other languages. Mm-hmm. We have, uh, 36 letters and like, there are Latin letters, but we have compound letters as well, so it’s kind of a little bit different. And the fact that we have 36 letters, actually, it makes a lot of Albanians easier to learn other languages.
LEONG: Yeah. Okay. So, so that’s interesting. The, within Kosovo – what’s food like?
ESRA: Delicious. [00:03:00]
LEONG: Okay. What, what type of cuisine?
ESRA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, a volcanic, um, like cuisine is impacted from like Ottoman cuisine as well. ’cause like we have been living with Ottomans for a very long time. Of course. ’cause like it has been under the region of Ottomans, like for 500 years.
Yeah. Compared to, for example, to Asians, which like they are very like resourceful when it comes to herbs. We are a little bit less than, but again, as I said, we are a bridge in that kind of, you can see it in the food as well. And the meat is important. Mm-hmm. Especially my city is known for having like the kind of the best meat in the area.
So, uh, and bread. Bread, Albanians Love Bread.
LEONG: Right? Okay. Yeah. Uh, what, what type of celebrations, you know, festival, you know, what’s, um, social life, uh, like in, in Kosovo?
ESRA: Uh, as for the festivals, especially as I said, my city is a touristic city. So there are, uh, [00:04:00] it’s something which is called Bunarfest.
’cause like we have a river which goes across the city, right? And in that river, they make mini boats and then they. Do this races?
LEONG: Yeah. Again, it, it overlaps with mine because, uh, we just had a Dragon Boat festival in, in Chinese culture, and, and we race, uh, dragon boats, so,
ESRA: oh, that’s interesting.
LEONG: You reminding me of that. So how does that compare to Jordan? I hear that it’s one of the, uh, places that everyone should, should, uh, should visit. Uh, but I’ve never been there, so, so paint me a picture of what, what Jordan is like.
ESRA: It’s actually historically I can say one of them. Richest places starting from the Petra, which is the one of the oldest cities, which was, it was rediscovered actually.
And it’s one of the world’s wonders, one of the Seven Wonders and for Transformer fans actually is also one of the scenes was filmed there. Yeah. And in Jordan it’s beautiful [00:05:00] ’cause you can see that a lot of people make pilgrimage as Christians. Because there are some, a lot of holy landscapes for Christians in this area.
It’s very close to the part where Moses was very, so yeah, you can see a lot of people actually travel here for that as well. It’s interesting when I first decided to come here. Because our country, like Jordan, is very close to Palestine. And my family was worried a little bit like, is it gonna be safe for me to study in here?
Like, is it gonna be the opportunities? But, uh, but because I had friends that came before me, um, I saw that actually it’s very good and. It took like four months of convincing my parents actually to come here. Mm-hmm. And I can say that it is totally opposite what my parents expected it. And actually it has been a blessing to be here.
LEONG: Right.
ESRA: I was raised in a family that valued education like no matter what, like especially the girls. ’cause we know that usually the, [00:06:00] for the men, it’s always easier when it comes to education or to going outside to leave the family, et cetera. And they instilled in us this uh, love for knowledge. Mm-hmm. So because of that, I was interested in Arabic language.
So of course the best way to learn whatever thing that you want, you need to see where it comes from. So for me, yeah, I had to go to an Arabic speaking country. For me to be able to, to be immersing myself fully in the language. Really did not know much about Jordan, but I’m really thankful that I took ’cause in here when I came, I realized that people in here, they really, really love knowledge.
And Jordan, I’ve seen the number of women and girls which have like master’s, doctor’s degrees, a lot of them. And the interesting part is that they also have families. ’cause as a woman it’s always, we have this dilemma. You’re gonna choose having kids or getting married, or you’re gonna choose [00:07:00] career, you’re gonna leave all of this aside.
I really love that the society is working in a way that supports women. It empowers women in a way that she can achieve this type of things.
LEONG: So this is quite different to what is painted, certainly in mainstream media outside of, of the Middle East and, and in the west. So, so you see this, that what you live in terms of your experience is quite different from how it’s painted.
ESRA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not just this matter, but. In all of the matters as well. Like, uh, for example, they have the stigma that like the women do not drive in the east, but that’s so wrong. I mean, I can, like, I just stepped outside and most of the, like half of them are women actually that are driving in here. And also for the hijab, the west things that we are kind of forced to wear this as though it’s not our choice.
But actually it’s completely different, especially in my family. When I wanted, I decided to put this. My mom, she was like, are you sure? Are [00:08:00] you sure you wanna put this like, because of course it’s responsibility. And I said, I am sure. And I did not decide to put hijab, for example, to cover myself just because my mom is covered or my aunt is covered.
No, I actually read books, I studied it. I thought about it and I thought about my position as a woman in society. I don’t wanna be judged for my body or like for my looks, for my makeup. But I wanna be judged for who I am as a person, for my achievements, for my contribution to society, and not just for the looks.
LEONG: Right? Okay. So how long have you been in Jordan?
ESRA: Um, three years now.
LEONG: Three years. Okay. Tell me the difference between when, uh, before you came and within this three years. How different are you now, uh, with, um, with the, uh, from the experiences that you had?
ESRA: Yeah. Firstly, I can say it’s different. My perception of Arabic has totally changed ’cause I have studied mm-hmm Arabic. Three years before coming in here, I studied Arabic. But when I came in [00:09:00] here, even from the first day, I was met with the totally different Arabic. I was like, what are these people speaking like it’s so hard. ’cause the way how people speak is very different from textbook learning that we do outside of the country.
Yeah. So it’s very important for everybody that wants to learn languages, immerse yourself in like with people which are native to them.
LEONG: So tell me about your education in Kosovo, you know, uh, growing up. Yeah. Uh, that led you to this interest in, in the Arabic language.
ESRA: I had a little bit of Arabic in high school, but it was really little. And then after I finished high school, I decided to take a year off as everybody does in their like, like in their teens and like finding yourself journey. Right. I went to study in that institution in Teran, which is the capital city of Albania. And, mm-hmm. I studied there. Firstly, we memorized the Holy Book of Koran, like the holy textbook that we have.
But I didn’t wanna just [00:10:00] learn it and memorize it as a parrot, you know, just like to say, I want to learn Arabic. But at the time, there was not anything accessible for me at in my city, and then I found through a friend, I found this another institution in Albania, and I decided to go there. So while I was memorizing it, I will be able to learn Arabic and understand what I’m memorizing because when it comes to the, the theological, uh, issues, everybody is like, it does not matter.
But actually, if we think deeply every action of ours is managed by our thoughts and our beliefs. Yeah. I was faced with a lot of people saying like, you are so smart why you waste your youth studying religion or like studying philosophy, but these things actually are the things that makes the world go round.
LEONG: OK. Can, can you tell me about your own experience? You know, so obviously Kosovo [00:11:00] went through a a lot of war. You know, what, what was it like, uh, when you grew up? In that, that, um, that environment.
ESRA: I was born in a war in a, so how safe can that be? Mm-hmm. But I can say it’s a miracle in a sense that we were able to survive that a lot of families, they kind of flew into Albania or to some other countries.
But my family did not, uh, leave the country. And during that time, there were a lot of shootings, um, and a few times that like a lot of my family members were about to be killed. But it was God’s grace that they are still alive and. I’m thankful for that and my sister always says something, which actually gives me more motivation to work.
She said, you were born in a war and also you survived that thing. So I think that you really meant to impact people in a way that is worth the fact that you’re still alive.
LEONG: How does that impact education, you know, being in, in the war zone, what happens to [00:12:00] schools?
ESRA: Yeah. A lot of schools were shut down during that period.
Yeah. They were teaching kids in homes. A lot of Albanians, they were teaching in homes secretly they were teaching the Albanian. Yeah, because of course the Serbian government was trying to enforce like teaching only in Serbian. And this kind of was a form of assimilation of people, Kosovan people. ’cause if you kill the language.
You kill the identity. There is a big connection between identity and the language, and what happens is that always the, the governments or the forces that they want to assimilate a population, they will attack the culture. The people’s culture as well. So that’s why Albanian people are very proud to be Albanian no matter where they go.
But we always care for other ethnicities that are within our country. For example, you can have an education in Turkish. Or in Bosnian language, which are like, we [00:13:00] have a lot of Bosnians from people, which are like Turkish. By giving the chance for each minority to study in their language, we are giving them the chance of choice.
They have a choice.
LEONG: Right. Okay. It sounds like such a, a rich, uh, uh, environment, especially with all the, the different languages and different cultures that goes with it. How do, how do all of you socialize?
ESRA: Uh, okay, so I’m gonna separate into this right now. The Tirane, like the Albania and the Kosovo in this sense, Albania, for example, Tirane, it’s a fun fact that the Tirae’s capital is a city that has the most cafes in the world per person. Yeah. Like they have this coffee culture a lot that they go to coffee and they socialize there. But in Kosovo is, we have coffees as well, but it’s more like we are go to each other’s houses to nature. Mm-hmm. Like it’s more intimate in a sense that with all of my friends, for example, I had Bosnian friends, Albanian friends, Turkish [00:14:00] friends, we would visit each other’s homes.
I would invite them with their families, with their moms till to this day. Example, my mom still like talks to my friend’s, mothers, for example. They, they keep the communication and not let die out.
LEONG: Right. Okay. So then move forward to now where you are now in Jordan. Uh, the, is that similar, how, how students mix together and,
ESRA: yeah.
Um, yeah. It’s not completely the same, but to some degree it is. ’cause what is. About the Jordanian people and, and Arabs in general, but Jordanian people, uh, just like Albanian, uh, culture in here as well. The hospitality is very, very important value. I felt myself welcomed and being cared for without having something to give in exchange, for example, when I had to move out or when I had issues with my heater, like the landlord would help me with his wife, so they see the kids [00:15:00] of somebody else, which is another country.
They say, we are your father. We are your, your brothers. We are your sisters here. You, you don’t have your family, but you have us. Which is really, yeah, it’s very heartwarming actually.
LEONG: You obviously, from the conversation around from the start is somebody who really loves learning and, you know, is big part of your life.
What is learning? Like, you know, what is being a student in your university and, and learning in Jordan? Like
ESRA: It’s very competitive actually. Mm. You learn with love. Like within you is instilled the love for knowledge. But besides that, the ranking system is very stressful actually, in the sense that you do not get the mark just based on your mark, but on the average.
So if the average is too high, you can have 95 points and still not have an A. And actually it’s kind of, sometimes it’s a little bit frustrating, but actually this is something that drives people to be more like motivated [00:16:00] and to be, be precise on your knowledge.
LEONG: How do you find socializing, making friends and, and, um, and spending time together?
ESRA: Well, um, because it is very competitive. A lot of people are like busy. Some of them, they’re traveling and of course this, uh, spending so much time on travel and commute, it takes away from your social life as well. But still, we, within the university, we have message it, it’s kind of the prayer rooms.
Especially for girls. I’m talking about, and there are a lot of coffee shops inside of university that each time, like before classes, after classes, you can socialize. And also we have a lot of events for students. Cultural exchange also. For example, you can apply to different type of arts. Choreography, drawing or whatever, like they are free for students.
So yeah, within the university we have a lot of communal spaces, which we can spend time like in a comfortable way.
LEONG: Right. [00:17:00] Okay. Now one thing I want to get into is that, you know, in your experience, what are the key things that a student should know thinking about coming to university or actually starting the, the university journey?
ESRA: Firstly is that sometimes you might like something, but without knowing the true reality of it, you can make a wrong decision. And what I mean by this is that for every student that plans to study either Law or something else, it doesn’t matter. It’s very good to firstly to talk somebody that is currently studying in your subject that you wanna study to show you exactly what you’re gonna learn.
And they should not shy away from actually checking the syllabus. Check the syllabus. Yeah, because you’re gonna spend four years in that. You better check that. Understand actually what you’re gonna learn. At the same time. Visit the University. See how do you like the environment? Do you like the classes?
Do you like the way how everything is kind of managed? And also if you can [00:18:00] take any internship. In that field that you are studying. Mm-hmm. It’s gonna be great. It’s gonna help you see the reality.
LEONG: Mm-hmm. Yep. Now where do you see yourself, uh, in the future?
ESRA: Well, uh, my dream actually, together with my other friends as well, that came from Kosovo, is to build a school.
Actually we wanna build a school. Yeah. Because we have always this kind of differentiation between Science and Arts, but I want. Uh, to build together with my friends, the school where they can learn all the things. Mm-hmm. And I do not believe personally in the division between religion and life. Mm-hmm.
Actually, it’s part of life. Uh, those values are, are part of life. The core of most values actually comes from religion. So I wanna build a school where we can instill this thing that you do not have to choose this or that. Actually you can be both. You don’t need to choose career or family. You can choose both.
They’re gonna be [00:19:00] familiar with all the scripts, they’re gonna …
LEONG: For one religion, for all religions,
ESRA: well all religion. But of course we are gonna learn about other religions. ’cause even in my university we have, uh, classes which call comparative religions. So you compare, for example, the scriptures.
It’s good to learn about other people’s point of view as well. Mm-hmm. But in order for you to be having an idea in general, you, firstly, you need to learn your religion. Like your point of view on thing, and then also compare to that so you can understand other people’s view on that. Us as Muslim or Christians or Judaism or whatever religion people have, they need to be familiar with their scriptures.
A lot of stigma is going around about religion. We are not able to protect what is ours because we do not know. If somebody tells me something I cannot believe to that person before I study it myself. So I wanna instill this to my students, that I want them to be critical thinkers. Mm-hmm. They take the book, they understand [00:20:00] it, they understand the languages, which is written.
It’s Arabic because it’s Hebrew, it’s uh, Latin. They understand the language, they understand what it refers to. Because a lot of problems happen there when they do not understand the real intent of the book.
LEONG: Okay, well thank you Esra. So I have to say that, you know, for all the, the people that that we’ve interviewed, yours, you, you are dripping with love of learning with knowledge.
And on the path to, to wisdom. So I wanna thank you for, I enjoyed this conversation and um, I hope to actually have, uh, more conversation with you in the future.
ESRA: Thank you very much for inviting me and I hope that everybody that listens to this podcast for, I hope them a very beautiful journey on their studying.
Both inside of university or outside the university, taking knowledge, it never stops. Just dream big and never stop chasing your dreams.[00:21:00]
LEONG: I was really fascinated with the amount of learning Ezra has undertaken in her young life, the passion she has shown for deep understanding. I also can’t wait to see what kind of school she will build and impact her teaching will have. I’ve really enjoyed the diverse lives we have explored in this series.
Thank you for tuning into Student Life Unplug. If you just found us, please listen to other episodes where you can hear from lots more other students from all around the world. And if you’ve enjoyed it, please share it with your friends or anyone starting out in their uni journey. Don’t forget to follow the show.
Catch you in the future series.